As an enthousiastic Patrician 3 player, I was very happy to discover (only a month ago!) that Patrician IV was out. It may have its flaws, but it is again a great game.

The info in this forum is great, especially the basic data sheet.

In order to help me calculate how to load my convoys to supply my counting houses, I decided to see if I could find the consumption rate of the various goods. I used 5 sets of figures of cities of various sizes, including the consumption numbers of a 60,000 inhabitant city included in the basic data sheet. I found out that the consumption rates remain more or less the same for different sizes of towns.

Rounded up to one decimal, I found that per 100 inhabitants, a city consumes the following number of goods per 10 days:

Wood 1,7
Bricks 2,9
Grain 3,1
Hemp 1,5
Wool 1,2
Raw metal 1,2
Honey 1,2
Salt 0,6
Metal goods 0,9
Mead 1,2
Cloth 0,6
Beer 1,8
Stockfish 1,8
Clothing 0,6
Cheese 1,2
Pitch 1,2
Pelts 0,6
Meat 0,6
Wine 0,3
Spice 0,3

Of course, I have not included the consumption rates of the town production.

Useful information. Thank you. Did you do your calculations on towns that did NOT produce the given commodities? Did you make sure that the commodities were not out-of-stock at any time during the 10-day period? (Can't consume what isn't there.) Did you factor in high consumption rates for towns with larger populations? Or establish that the rate doesn't accelerate as population increases? (As population increases more prosperous and rich residents appear, and I would be inclined to think that they would tend to consume more than the poor residents.)

When calculating the consumption rates, I left out the consumption rates of the commodities used for production in that town.

I used the consumption rates of different cities at different sizes, and to my surprise, the deviation between them is very little. As the towns grow, some commodities are used more, but only marginally so. The only inconclusive number is the consumption rate of wood, which varried more than one tenth between the different sets of numbers, where the others varried less than 0.05.

I also believed that there would be a bigger difference, but that is not what I found. But then, I only used a limited set of numbers, all from winter ( I understand wood and a few other commodities are used more in winter), so my numbers may be off, but it surprised me that most of the rates were exactly the same for the different sets of numbers. I believe the numbers above are a good measure.

Well i calculated with version 1.2 the following need of the population:

Wood 1,4772
Bricks 2,894
Grain 3,052
Hemp 1,472
Wool 1,156
Raw metal 1,156
Honey 1,156
Salt 0,577
Metal goods 0,894
Mead 1,156
Cloth 0,578
Beer 1,736
Stockfish 1,736
Clothing 0,578
Cheese 1,156
Pitch 1,156
Pelts 0,578
Meat 0,578
Wine 0,314
Spice 0,314

Basis for the calculation was a town with 60.000 citizens.
I found out, that there is no difference if there are more wealthy and ritch people in a town. The consumption is the same by a 80% poor, 15% wealthy and 5% ritch population and by a 70% poor, 20% wealthy and 10% ritch population.

But the need is a bit dependant on the seasons i think. But i couldn't proof it, because of draugts and pluages in summer while i tested that issue.

If you take in the need for rawmaterials to produce the needed goods you get the following need table:

Wood 3,219
Bricks 2,894
Grain 3,486
Hemp 3,497
Wool 2,312
Raw metal 2,339
Honey 2,312
Salt 2,312
Metal goods 1,183
Mead 1,156
Cloth 1,156
Beer 1,736
Stockfish 1,736
Clothing 0,578
Cheese 1,156
Pitch 1,156
Pelts 0,578
Meat 0,578
Wine 0,314
Spice 0,314

Hein

I just want to say that Hein's figures, above, for the need/consumption of the population also works for the Rise of a Dynasty add-on/expansion. Also, like Scipio said, the deviations from the figures are fractional and are too small to be of any concern.

Sorry, double post.

(21-03-2011 11:38 AM)Bagaluth Wrote:  Well i calculated with version 1.2 the following need of the population:

Wood 1,4772
Bricks 2,894
Grain 3,052
Hemp 1,472
Wool 1,156
Raw metal 1,156
Honey 1,156
Salt 0,577
Metal goods 0,894
Mead 1,156
Cloth 0,578
Beer 1,736
Stockfish 1,736
Clothing 0,578
Cheese 1,156
Pitch 1,156
Pelts 0,578
Meat 0,578
Wine 0,314
Spice 0,314

Basis for the calculation was a town with 60.000 citizens.
I found out, that there is no difference if there are more wealthy and ritch people in a town. The consumption is the same by a 80% poor, 15% wealthy and 5% ritch population and by a 70% poor, 20% wealthy and 10% ritch population.

But the need is a bit dependant on the seasons i think. But i couldn't proof it, because of draugts and pluages in summer while i tested that issue.

If you take in the need for rawmaterials to produce the needed goods you get the following need table:

Wood 3,219
Bricks 2,894
Grain 3,486
Hemp 3,497
Wool 2,312
Raw metal 2,339
Honey 2,312
Salt 2,312
Metal goods 1,183
Mead 1,156
Cloth 1,156
Beer 1,736
Stockfish 1,736
Clothing 0,578
Cheese 1,156
Pitch 1,156
Pelts 0,578
Meat 0,578
Wine 0,314
Spice 0,314

Hein

Hi Bagaluth, I am interested to know with your raw material rates, are they 10 day or 20 day? And if you produce/supply the approximate amount as above for the town will each item be 2 green diamonds?

I appreciate your dedication to the forums. Thanks Bagaluth.

They told me at the store this game would not require math.

(25-12-2011 12:38 AM)Easy Bakes Wrote:  They told me at the store this game would not require math.

In that case, have I got a deal for you ! I'll sell you 200 pelts for the low low price of 160000....

(22-12-2011 11:45 AM)ellomotto Wrote:  Hi Bagaluth, I am interested to know with your raw material rates, are they 10 day or 20 day? And if you produce/supply the approximate amount as above for the town will each item be 2 green diamonds?

All given numbers for goods are calculated for a 10 day need for 100 inhabitants.

Sorry at the moment i have nearly no time for P4. And of cause i even have less time to look here and on other boards, if someone needs help. So it can take some time to get an answer from me.

Hein

(21-03-2011 11:38 AM)Bagaluth Wrote:  Well i calculated with version 1.2 the following need of the population:

Wood 1,4772
Bricks 2,894
Grain 3,052
Hemp 1,472
Wool 1,156
Raw metal 1,156
Honey 1,156
Salt 0,577
Metal goods 0,894
Mead 1,156
Cloth 0,578
Beer 1,736
Stockfish 1,736
Clothing 0,578
Cheese 1,156
Pitch 1,156
Pelts 0,578
Meat 0,578
Wine 0,314
Spice 0,314

Basis for the calculation was a town with 60.000 citizens.
I found out, that there is no difference if there are more wealthy and ritch people in a town. The consumption is the same by a 80% poor, 15% wealthy and 5% ritch population and by a 70% poor, 20% wealthy and 10% ritch population.

But the need is a bit dependant on the seasons i think. But i couldn't proof it, because of draugts and pluages in summer while i tested that issue.

If you take in the need for rawmaterials to produce the needed goods you get the following need table:

Wood 3,219
Bricks 2,894
Grain 3,486
Hemp 3,497
Wool 2,312
Raw metal 2,339
Honey 2,312
Salt 2,312
Metal goods 1,183
Mead 1,156
Cloth 1,156
Beer 1,736
Stockfish 1,736
Clothing 0,578
Cheese 1,156
Pitch 1,156
Pelts 0,578
Meat 0,578
Wine 0,314
Spice 0,314

Hein

well, thruth, i ve made research how many workers based on 100citizens each job need. Majority of 20 commodities require 5.78% of working population, only bricks require less than 5% which would be ideal, obviously.
So, with current setup of how many goods each job produce and require, and how much citizens use, whatever we do, we always require 109% of population, which is of course imposible.
Thats why some goods will always be scarce.

My apologise for grammar mistakes.

That's right, but you can import some goods from the mediteranian sea. That shortens the gap.

I have solved that problem by reducing the Pitch production after building all needed wagons and ships. And the brick produktion after nearly finishing all possible buildings. You have to build 100% wells in all citys or the fires will cause a break down if you play on professional level. But if you have 100% wells you can go on with about 60 to 70% of the normal need for bricks without causing trouble and with less than 40% of the needed pitch.

Hein

(29-02-2012 08:55 PM)Bagaluth Wrote:  That's right, but you can import some goods from the mediteranian sea. That shortens the gap.

I have solved that problem by reducing the Pitch production after building all needed wagons and ships. And the brick produktion after nearly finishing all possible buildings. You have to build 100% wells in all citys or the fires will cause a break down if you play on professional level. But if you have 100% wells you can go on with about 60 to 70% of the normal need for bricks without causing trouble and with less than 40% of the needed pitch.

Hein

Agree with that. Gap is down from 9 to 6% of population if you use Pitch production as a substitute for wine plus spice. But i still didnt test it as full scale, i am not sure is it posible to have such a big import, and i yet didnt calculated how much is reduce if you import cloth too, but i guess it it will shorten gap even more, because of huge reduce in wool (50%)production too.

(01-03-2012 10:57 AM)Sadalmelik Wrote:  Agree with that. Gap is down from 9 to 6% of population if you use Pitch production as a substitute for wine plus spice. But i still didnt test it as full scale, i am not sure is it posible to have such a big import, and i yet didnt calculated how much is reduce if you import cloth too, but i guess it it will shorten gap even more, because of huge reduce in wool (50%)production too.

Hmm you can import wine and cloth about 20 to 25% of the population need. So you can only reduce the needed woolproduction at about 10 to 15%.

Hein