I am completely, thoroughly and entirely disgusted with Tropico 4. Having had very many lockups, all of which I have reported in detail to Kalypso who "cannot repeat" the problems, I have deleted the game (via Steam) and purged some left-over files which were not deleted, I have reloaded it (and then found that my achievements and Swiss acount had remained somewhere) and given myself a new profile to start again from scratch.
And what happened ? I got a lockup at the "Improving Relations" panel in the tutorial.
So from me it's goodbye, Tropico, and also goodbye to Kalypso.

(30-09-2011 06:21 PM)Bushface Wrote:  I am completely, thoroughly and entirely disgusted with Tropico 4. Having had very many lockups, all of which I have reported in detail to Kalypso who "cannot repeat" the problems, I have deleted the game (via Steam) and purged some left-over files which were not deleted, I have reloaded it (and then found that my achievements and Swiss acount had remained somewhere) and given myself a new profile to start again from scratch.
And what happened ? I got a lockup at the "Improving Relations" panel in the tutorial.
So from me it's goodbye, Tropico, and also goodbye to Kalypso.

It sounds like its the machine, not the game.

I am having tha same problem too!!!

Does your computer meet all of the system requirements to run Tropico 4?

I run the Steam Edition of Tropico 4 on a five year old HP Pavilion and it works perfectly. I have never had it freeze or crash to the desktop.

The great challenge of developing on PC is that everyone has different hardware. Not just different hardware, but you have maniacs who try to plug top of the line graphics cards into 250 watt power supplies, on a pentium 2 motherboard, with a sound card salvaged from a 486 sx. Then, everyone's operating systems are different, sometimes drivers are updated sometimes not, a dozen antivirus software, and a whole slew of horrific malware/bloatware.

Sometimes developers are to blame, but this software runs fantastic on a reasonably old (but cutting edge at its time) computer, with only half the above problems. Sounds like its time to clean house and take a firm look at your equipment-- thats my suggestion!

I am using XP / 32-bit/ service pack 3
2.9 ghz/ 1 gb ram
Nvidia Geforce GT 240 - ddr3/ 1 gb

updated to version 1.3

Bushface, I can't see your specs anywhere, or the crash report (either the dump data or the Tropico log), so I've got no idea. If it's the same as cccp72's, you've got a cross threading deadlock, which suggests (from what I know of this case) that you've got a hardware issue (as Timo said) -- if it weren't a hardware issue more of us would be seeing it. It's also possible that you've got a boatload of immigrants rolling into Tropico at the same time something else is happening (random starvation deaths? emigration?) and it's chucking a wobbly.

While I'm not affiliated with Haemimont or Kalypso, if you'd like I can take a poke around with your save and see if I can get Timo any additional information to fix it. (I can't promise anything, but this is a great game and I hate to see random issues arise, and I'd also rather know well before it hits the modding circuit and we all start belting it about with large sticks.) Obviously (given the mod I have), I have a few methods of debugging that most users don't -- and while they're esoteric and I'm not hugely keen on sharing them (in part because they manipulate game limits to see if there's an issue there), I'm happy to help if/where/when I can.

EDIT: phenoyz, if you can send me a save somehow (PM me a link to a file if you don't want to post it here), I'm happy to poke around that too

(30-09-2011 11:20 PM)Swixel Wrote:  EDIT: phenoyz, if you can send me a save somehow (PM me a link to a file if you don't want to post it here), I'm happy to poke around that too

Hello Swixel, thanks for the reply
I am not that computer savy. Can u elaborate more on where I can find that file?

Is there a problem with my computer specs? I think I meet the
minimum requirements.

thx again

Start -> Run
Type in %APPDATA%\Tropico 4

Inside the users\user1 directory will be a list of .sav files, with the names aligning with what's in game.

I'm thinking you might be going over 1GB of RAM required by the game, and you're getting a deadlock on crossthreading because of applications trying to use the page file or RAM at the same time.

(30-09-2011 11:45 PM)Swixel Wrote:  Start -> Run
Type in %APPDATA%\Tropico 4

Inside the users\user1 directory will be a list of .sav files, with the names aligning with what's in game.

I'm thinking you might be going over 1GB of RAM required by the game, and you're getting a deadlock on crossthreading because of applications trying to use the page file or RAM at the same time.

i can not open the .sav file
what program should i use thanks again
also isnt it better if i have 1 gb of RAM on my graphics card? and my computer have the
minimum not the recommended requirements needed?

You need the recommended to run it at the recommended speed/rate

The minimum just means (usually) that you can open it.

The .SAV was to send so I can see what's happening at the time, you can't open it (easily)

it just LOCK-UP again -and-again!
WHAT TO DO !!!

Vacuum out all the cat hair balls from the CPU fan! That improved my T3 experience.

Well I offered to help ... I just want an example of when it's crashing (your closest save) so I can see if it's what I think it is.

My guess is that your system only having 1GB of RAM is a problem, as I've had Tropico (and Tropico alone) pass 1.1GB before.

(30-09-2011 08:44 PM)Boston Wrote:  Does your computer meet all of the system requirements to run Tropico 4?
I run the Steam Edition of Tropico 4 on a five year old HP Pavilion and it works perfectly. I have never had it freeze or crash to the desktop.

whats your computer specs pls?
thx

(01-10-2011 02:35 AM)outspan81 Wrote:  Vacuum out all the cat hair balls from the CPU fan! That improved my T3 experience.

HAHAHA...I will try that!!!..vacuum all that hair BALLS..!!!

(01-10-2011 02:51 AM)Swixel Wrote:  Well I offered to help ... I just want an example of when it's crashing (your closest save) so I can see if it's what I think it is.

My guess is that your system only having 1GB of RAM is a problem, as I've had Tropico (and Tropico alone) pass 1.1GB before.

i think having only 1GB of RAM might have something to do w/it
my computer is 6 yrs old already , although my graphics card is new
thanks again for the help

Wait, 6 years old, what sort of CPU is that? 2.9GHz back then was mostly single or HT (or so I thought).

As for Bush, I've still got no idea.

Oh, I used to play WoW way back in the day, and I'd go to try to raid and the computer would hard reboot. Spent a few days figuring it out.

Turned out the heatsink had become so clogged with hair and dirt that intense processing would result in a lockup and/or a hard reboot of the machine. Just overheated. And theres a lot of processes going on in Tropico, el presidente, so there is seriously something to be said for cleaning the heat sink and other parts of an old machine!!!!!!

My computer's spec :- i7-2600k quad core 3.4GHz, 8GB 1600MHz RAM, 1GB GTX560Ti, runs Windows 7 64 bit. That ought to run T4 quite easily, and when playing I run no other software beyond Norton 360. I have tried to play with Norton turned off, but bloody Steam will not allow me to play in offline mode although on checking it tells me that all is well to do so, and I will not connect to the Net without malware protection .
I have no such problems with Total War or Civilization nor with my DTP and office software. Just Tropico.
But I can't provide any saves. All traces of this disaster have been deleted from storage - game, saves, and some odd files left behind after uninstalling via Steam. There must, I feel, be some configurational quirk causing the problem, but if Kalypso and Haemimont can't offer any suggestions what can a poor victim do but abandon all hope ?

I'm starting to wonder if the Steam version has introduced some sort of weird bug through CEG or something. I mean, I assume they know you're running the Steam version (i.e. you reported it), but yeah, that's sort of weird ...

(01-10-2011 02:57 PM)Bushface Wrote:  ..., and when playing I run no other software beyond Norton 360. I have tried to play with Norton turned off, but bloody Steam will not allow me to play in offline mode although on checking it tells me that all is well to do so, and I will not connect to the Net without malware protection. ...

I wish to opine that in this "BORG-Like" universe of completely interactive software constantly connected -- surely some packet of code will poison some other packet of code.

Has Haemimont\Kalypso run T4 against every malware protection program on the face of the planet? Has every malware protection program vendor on the planet said "howdy-do?" to Steam?

The Federation should just have let the Borg's software collapse when all the quasi-human brains were fried by reading byte code.

My question therefore becomes "What code fragment is causing my computers, and apparently only mine, to fail to run Tropico ?" The difficulty in identifying this arises from the various code sources of Kalypso, Steam, Norton, and whichever company wrote my BIOS, plus of course the inevitable and inscrutable Microsoft, each of which organisations is sure to disclaim responsibility for what appears to me to be a personally-directed attack on my enjoyment and, indirectly, on my wallet. None the less, I am strongly inclined to accuse Kalypso/Haemimont because I have had this lock-up problem not only in Tropico 4 but also in Tropico 3 (disc and Steam versions) and on three different computers. All my other software runs perfectly.
Is it wrong to be paranoid when the world really is against you ? Well, maybe not the whole world, just a bit of it.

This happens on every game release. A little patience can go a long way.

Personally, I'd be blaming Norton 360. For me (and those I know), Symantec's domestic software is anathema (though it seems fine if all remains stable for so many people who don't play games). I've always wondered if it was doing some sort of thread checking, which, in games or applications which use LOTS of threads (Tropico 3 and Tropico 4), you'd bet would cause problems.

mrfisse also suggested it could be hardware related. Given it's isolated to your system, and to Haemimont's engine (T3 and T4 are on a similar, if not the same, base engine code, at least on the C++ side of things), and you have more than enough power to run it, you're probably looking at an application you're using or hardware faults.

As for "disabling it", if you haven't tried it, you haven't tried everything, and given my experience with Norton I'd be eyeing it off. Have you tried adding an exception? Otherwise the only thing I could recommend trying is purging the Norton install and trying Microsoft Security Essentials (which I'm actually using on this laptop, and have only had one problem with and that was in beta).

Sidenote: If you're starting Steam then trying to go into offline mode, that won't work. What you need to do is login to Steam normally, click Steam->Go offline... wait for it to restart, then either disable or physically disconnect the network cable. That way you should be able to disable Norton 360.

I'm not saying it's not Haemimont/Kalypso's that's at fault, I'm just saying that you haven't tried to get around Symantec being the problem, and A/V programs are hugely problematic. Remember that disabling the it is really only one test, the full test would be removing Norton 360 (to make sure it's actually disabled and not just saying it is).



EDIT: To clarify, a lot of A/V and firewall software messed up games, it's not just Norton/Symantec. I've just had a lot of trouble with them in the past with a lot of games, but I've also had issues with AVG (free and non-free), and Trend Micro (though substantially less than Norton and AVG). I'm using Microsoft's under the logic that since they actually have full kernel access (read: full system access) that they might actually be able to do some things right. That said, since various vendors shouldn't be cracking PatchGuard anymore (Symantec being the one who published a whitepaper on it), hopefully things have improved since I last used a non-MS A/V product or actually browsed the net (actively) on a Windows PC

(01-10-2011 03:50 AM)Swixel Wrote:  Wait, 6 years old, what sort of CPU is that? 2.9GHz back then was mostly single or HT (or so I thought).

Its Pentium 4 (2.99 GHz)
Do u think upgrading it to 2 GB RAM would stop it from locking-out?
my computer works fine, i cant justify buying a new one just to play t4?

why can i play, no problems with graphics, up to a certain time?
then suddenly it just LOCKS-UP?

Last I checked, Pentium 4s aren't dual core (Pentium D were the first desktop ones with dual-core iirc) ... so your system doesn't actually meet the specs. So while additional RAM might help it, unless Tropico is content with Hyperthreading in the place of multicore (which it shouldn't be), you'll hit a wall there anyway.

It does sound far more like you're hitting a wall with RAM, but before you buy more, run Tropico in Windowed mode with taskmgr in the background. Shrink it so you can watch the RAM usage (or use a second monitor if you have one). If your total RAM gets to 0% free and you crash out, try setting up a page file.

If that doesn't do anything, chances are it's the lack of a dual-core processor, hardware (bad RAM?), or software interference (likely anti-virus). You can avoid bad RAM with a page file sometimes, but only for a while.

As for "just to play T4", the lack of a second core is going to be causing more and more issues as time goes by (developers make the assumption that the majority of their market has dual-core or better (and they do)) and so code with that in mind.

Swixel, you are the man..., ummm...this is gonna be another
$$$$ flyin outta my pocketzzz...
i'll wait for a good deal out there and maybe buy a new computer
or wait until the expansion comes out next year...maybe price
may have gone down a bit, but its a looong wait..
THX again

You could try knocking down the settings to the absolute minimum, setting up a page file (2GB may be the limit) and seeing how that goes.

I'd be hoping, for your sake, that the page file helps it some. Either way, a new system is probably the way to go after 6 years ... I tend to try to keep mine within a 3-4 year window -- my current system only has two parts still in warranty, and it doesn't play nice with some newer games

(03-10-2011 12:29 AM)phenoyz Wrote:  Its Pentium 4 (2.99 GHz)
Do u think upgrading it to 2 GB RAM would stop it from locking-out?
my computer works fine, i cant justify buying a new one just to play t4?

Definatly dont go upgrading that system.. its a complete waste of money. (unless of course you know someone that has a old stick laying around that you can get for free, or basically no cost) Perhaps your case and power supply might be worth saving, probably your dvdr, (you do have a burner right?) if its over 400 watts, but for some reason i dought it. But your vid card seams worth saving.. SO in that case, in the best case senario, you save your case, dvd, though your HD might be iffy, dending on the connector types. You could be talking about just a chip/board/memory, which you can do for about 250-300 bucks.

If you want to play newer games, its time to build a new system. If your on a budget you can build a computer for around 400-500 bucks, that in say 3+ years you can upgrade again, and basically let you play anything on the market for the next 6+. Perhaps not at highest settings, but will run the games no problem. My system is going on 5 year old tech and i have zero problems running the newest stuff on basically the higest settings i can run.

Its all about picking good parts, and using good configurations, and updating drivers.. I even run vista which people screamed from the roof tops how much it sucked and how it cant run anything. Outside of old software (aka 10 years+) i havent had a single issue with the system. This winter it will be 3 years old. Im just now consitering possibly getting a new video card, but mostly will push it back another year.

spend money getting a budge case with 500 watts, if you dont add a ton of stuff, and want to run double vid cards (something i find a total waste of money) then you will be fine

get a good solid mother board.. somewhere around 100 bucks, something that is new enough that its high end chips you can add to it are in the 500-600 dollar range,, yet something you can drop a 100 dollar chip into now. (hard to pick the right one, but worth it)

ram, get a nice single stick, it costs a tiny bit more, but will let you drop in another stick or 2 later, for upgrades with no down side. I also try to get something with a decent speed, that you can just get by with.. like a 2 gig stick, or even a 4 gig these days, then your upgrade will be to 8 and 12.

HD, dont waste money here, get enough size, 500-1tb, something around 7200 spin.. your talking only a few seconds on load time, NEver worth spending an extra 100 bucks.. If you wanna get tricky though, you can go with a smaller drive to run your main system, and keep things fast, then a slower drive for back up storage. (sometimes a way to save now, upgrade later)

vid card.. here is anotehr place you can skimp.. paying 100 bucks now, then in 2-3 years spend another 100 bucks.. it will get you much better gaming over all than spending 300 bucks on a nice vid card today and not upgrading for 4-5 years. and you spent 100 bucks less.

Chip, another thing you can skimp and save now.. chips have little to do with driving todays vid cards and these days are typically not worth the money upgrading. Get a cheap duo core, or at this point a qaud core, basically something thats bottom tier for your mother board, then you have something easy to upgrade later..


Now this system you just built for 400-500 bucks.. Now in 3 years, you can drop a great chip, another stick of ram, and a new vid card for about 300 bucks total.. and just basically got a brand new system that will be rock solid for another 3-4+ years of gaming.

If you really are interested in trying your hand at building a system i can help you find the right parts to make a very solid system on a budget, that will keep you gaming through 2016, without ever having to say.. id like to buy that game, but id have to buy a whole new system to do so!

Tropi'je thanks for the advice:
quick question? if i buy a computer with 8GB of RAM already installed
is it possible to upgrade it to 16GB, buy taking out the 2 = 4GB already installed and buying 2= 8GB RAM? to make it 16GB RAM
thanks

Depends on the system, but if it's an i3, i5, i7 or a newer AMD, they should support 16GB or more.

8GB is plenty unless you're doing graphics, sound, video, or 3D editing -- anything else using more than 4GB is probably broken Even Tropico with 22,000 people only pulls 1.4GB.