Everyone typically has a faction in game that just "rubs them the wrong way" for various reasons. Maybe it is due to playstyle, faction demands, or simply just them being total jerks... but whenever particular factions start to complain about conditions I just groan and ignore them. Here is my list, in order from least annoying to most annoying.

#10 (least annoying) - The United States - Maybe it is because I am a capitalist through and through... but I have never once had the US complain about anything happening on my island. I think it is more likely that since growing your economy is crucial to in game success, you are much more likely to not have issues with the Yanks. Not to mention, a lot of random events in the campaign mode end up with either the US government or people in the US sending my island money... your tax dollars at work.

#9 The Capitalists - An offshoot of above, growing your economy makes the Capitalists happy and helps you to grow your island. When I get a message that the capitalists are unhappy, it is more of a reminder that I should take some steps to improve my island's balance. Their demands are totally realistic and fall right in line with what you're trying to do in the game.

#8 The Environmentalists - Despite growing your economy usually being detrimental to their cause, they seem very unlikely to speak up against you. Unless you are unwisely polluting close to your population centers, or if you spread your pollution all over the map instead of attempting to concentrate it in one area, they won't speak up unless things get really bad.

#7 The USSR - The big Russian bear always wants to give me a big hug. That may be the most annoying part about the USSR... and that is by having GOOD relations with them. While more likely to be hard to please than the US, especially early on, their developmental aid is one of the most valuable edicts in the game. Once enacted and you start building plenty of housing, you hardly hear a peep from the Red Army.

#6 The Communists - They are more vocal than their Russian counterparts. Early on, they will nag you to death for better housing and healthcare. Look, I plan on building some housing, but let me get aid from Russia first okay?

#5 The Militarists - Constantly demanding better conditions for soldiers and generals makes you no fun to be around. While I am happy to oblige that request, I do not like feeling rushed into building an Armory. Not only do i have to construct the building, but then I have to get a couple experts from overseas if I don't have a College already working. If they are so concerned about rebels, why don't they help fight?

#4 The Intellectuals - While late in the game they stay very pleased, it seems like any time a random event occurs, one of the choices will anger them. They also lose respect from your primary Swiss banking edict, the building permit.

#3 Tourists - While not a legitimate faction per se, I would consider them a faction for two reasons. All tourists have specific needs and desires that must be catered to, and all tourists will rate your island's performance. Effectively making them a faction. First of all, they never stay put. I cannot keep them in their zones for anything. I understand why this is, since I have good service quality entertainment in my population area sometimes, but they also have great entertainment right next to them. They clog up my otherwise efficient transportation system, which usually leads to me not bothering with them.

#2 The Nationalists - Bunch of inbred rednecks if you ask me. They continually complain about an open door immigration policy and how immigrants are taking jobs from citizens even when there is zero unemployment and plenty of vacant jobs. When they are not complaining about that, they are moaning about foreign experts, which are essential to setting up the long term welfare of an island. Maybe if they were a little smarter to begin with, I wouldn't need to bring in any experts eh?

#1 (most annoying) - The Religious - This group is a bunch of close minded pricks from game beginning to end. All they are interested in is restricting the freedoms of Tropicans and crippling the island with their backwards beliefs. First off, they demand a $6,000 church right away and dock you -20 respect for not having it, then once that is built they nearly immediately want a Catherdral built and dock you -10 respect for not having it. Never mind the cathedral costs 20 grand, requires 4 college workers when you might not even have a high school yet, and fills up with people immediately so that you have to build another Cathedral not to far down the road. Can't they just pray in their homes? As someone who in real life is college educated, not very religious, and a Libertarian to boot... their edicts are so far off in left field it makes me sick. Book burning is ridiculous, contraception bans are abhorring (even if STDs dont exist in game, what right does a religion have to dictate a couple's sex life? Much less having a government impose it?), inquisitions are stupid, prohibiting alcohol never works (look at the murder and crime rate in the US during that time, which doesn't even account for people who died drinking poisonous bootlegged alcohols), and don't even get me started on same-sex marriage. I am aware that my real life issues and beliefs naturally make me a strong opponent of this faction in game, but seriously, even beyond their freedom crushing edicts you can never satisfy them, and trying to do so will cost you tons of money.

Alright... *Cools Off* now that my rant is over, what is YOUR vote for the most annoying faction in the game?

Close call between

Nationalists, Militarists and Religious

Religious for the same reasons you named
Militarists cause They have a very PARTICULAR WAY of voicing their concern, AKA Through Coups Attempts.
Nationalists, because they keep pissing about aids camps and immigration.

Nationalists are the worst in my opinion, because I have a hard time finding them a use whatsoever

Environnementalists either, but at least they don't piss me off every 15min

The absolute worst faction is the religious faction. Churches and cathedrals are very expensive, and I would much rather use that money to build houses and healthcare. It's doubly worse that they are a huge faction and displeasing them means a large part of your population will be pissed off at you if you ignore them long enough. They are pricks all around.

I guess the next two are the militarist and nationalist factions.

The militarists aren't so bad, since building a guard station every one in a while isn't a big deal, but they can be hard to satisfy in the beginning when they want an armory and a college worker.

The nationalists are mostly harmless. They moan and whine all the time, but at least they can't start a coup and usually don't rebel.

The least annoying for me tend to be the capatalists, US, and environmentalists. My presidente is stacked with a ton of pro-capitalist traits which sets his starting relations with the US and capitalists very high. I don't usually go very far out of my way to reduce pollution, and even then I cannot remeber the environmentalists ever complaining.

Hee. This game is true to life!

Still, it gives me joy to enact same sex marriages and upset them.

There are so many pro-religion edicts, I wish there were anti-religion ones too.

You know what's even more annoying about the religious? I had six cathedrals, and demolished the church... becaue I didn't have a church they got all huffy!

Right now I have 100% with all factions - apart from religious, at 90%. They don't like that I'm a gambler and I have same sex marraiges.

My first reaction when they demanded a church so quickly was "Alright, you want it so badly, you fork up the money!":rolleyes:

Add to that they want MANY churches and MANY cathedrals and they are seemingly NEVER satisfied - I have never gotten rel. sat. above 60.

(12-11-2009 05:21 PM)Felix_Quintana Wrote:  Add to that they want MANY churches and MANY cathedrals and they are seemingly NEVER satisfied - I have never gotten rel. sat. above 60.

I'm at 72 on religious satisfaction. I have four cathedrals, one church and 580 inhabitants.

I think location is key... they need to be able to get their church fix stat.

Nationalists hands down. Most of the other factions demands coinside with somthing that actually helps your island. Environmentalists demand high evironment scores...which makes your tropicans happier anyway. Capitalists want factories and processed goods, which makes you richer anyway, commies want housing and food, which makes people happy and alive anyway, intellectuals want schools, which you need to use anyway, religious people want churches, which is a happiness componenet anyway. Even militarists give you the benefit of added safety (even if you don't need it) if you play to their demands. Even so, the damage to the country isn't as bad as the damage caused by the nationalists. (Paying some extra military wages is nothing compared to losing all immigrants)

The nationalists demands all force you to harm your country to meet their desires. Shutting out all immigrants stagnates the economy, not using the aid camp makes people suffer in the early game. Not using foreign experts leaves vital jobs unfilled.

I wish there was a flag BBQ edict for the nationalists that functioned like the Book BBQ edict did for the intellectuals. I'd use it every time.

I think FritoPotato is letting his personal animosity towards religious people cloud his judgment about the game.

The religious faction is not that hard to please. All they ask is buildings that satisfy the faith need. All Tropicans have the faith need so you have to build these buildings even if the religious faction wasn't demanding them.

The Church can be a powerful ally. If your people are living in horrid shacks, earning meager wages, and afraid of the brutal thugs you hire as soldiers, the Church will tell the people they should be happy anyway because a better world awaits them. That is what faith is all about.

Actually, no, I'm going to say what I really think. Fritopatata is a hateful bigot.

(13-11-2009 08:06 AM)Calithorne Wrote:  Actually, no, I'm going to say what I really think. Fritopatata is a hateful bigot.

... and this is why you'll never get out of the -3. When you speak, or address others, you constantly add your moral, or political views into the mix thinking that this game is real life. Much less adding another post 5 hours later calling him names. Not everything is addressed to you personally. You actually look for people to dislike you. It's people like you that give religious morality a bad name.

I felt he was directing this thread constructively. If you look at most of the replies, you'll see that just about everyone has religion in their top 3 complaints, myself included for the reasons he stated.

(13-11-2009 12:55 PM)Tropico Bob Wrote:  ... and this is why you'll never get out of the -3.

And that's why you both drift away even more.

(13-11-2009 08:06 AM)Calithorne Wrote:  Actually, no, I'm going to say what I really think. Fritopatata is a hateful bigot.

Saying things like that make you more of a hateful bigot than I will ever be. Especially if you are gallivanting around as an ally of religion and faith, as you appear to be in your comments. The whole "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality will get you nowhere.

Anyway, I'm not going to turn this thread into a war of insults, and instead will address your concerns in your first and more constructive post. I outright said in my original post that my feelings about personal freedoms make me despise all the religious edicts (except the papal visit, the rest are very intrusive), and I choose to play the game in a manner concurrent with how I would actually run a country if I were its leader. I do not despise religion. I am not a hate monger. I only wish that religion and politics would keep their ideals separated. In this game, the two are clearly intertwined, and if I were a leader, I would make all sorts of legal provisions to ensure this is not possible. If you read your history, you will find that weaving religion and politics only brought death and intolerance to Europe and the Middle East in the form of things like the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and indirectly the Holocaust.

Beyond personal reasons for having the religious at the top, I feel I presented plenty of game play related reasons for such. They demand to many expensive buildings too early in the game, as well as skilled workers that you probably cannot supply yet without hiring foreign help. They demand edicts that prohibit some industrialization, and that effect your standing with the intellectuals. They also are highly unbalanced in their representation throughout the populace, and therefore hold to much power on the island, though from a historical perspective... this would be accurate.

(13-11-2009 02:54 PM)FritoPatata Wrote:  Beyond personal reasons for having the religious at the top, I feel I presented plenty of game play related reasons for such. They demand to many expensive buildings too early in the game, as well as skilled workers that you probably cannot supply yet without hiring foreign help. They demand edicts that prohibit some industrialization, and that effect your standing with the intellectuals. They also are highly unbalanced in their representation throughout the populace, and therefore hold to much power on the island, though from a historical perspective... this would be accurate.

I agree whole heartedly with this. It does drain our finances very early in the game. I am also lead to understand that most religious buildings are constructed through a donation process, not out of state funding. Is this not true to a large extent?

(13-11-2009 03:10 PM)Tropico Bob Wrote:  I am also lead to understand that most religious buildings are constructed through a donation process, not out of state funding. Is this not true to a large extent?

That's 100% true in the United States. There would be an uproar if a dime of state money were spent on the construction of anything remotely religious. However, churches and the like are given tax exempt status, since they are charitable organizations. Religion shows its influence in politics, which is unavoidable because many politicians have a religion, but in free countries laws are enacted to prevent theocratic states.

Ah so Tropico is a theocratic state (of sorts)?

And I agree with the annoying religious demands. Also I have yet to use the Book BBQ eddict as I have no idea WHY I would want to do that or even the Inquisition eddict. If anyone has actually used these for a reason, I'd love to hear why.

(13-11-2009 03:52 PM)MadMax Wrote:  Ah so Tropico is a theocratic state (of sorts)?

And I agree with the annoying religious demands. Also I have yet to use the Book BBQ eddict as I have no idea WHY I would want to do that or even the Inquisition eddict. If anyone has actually used these for a reason, I'd love to hear why.

I haven't used the BBQ either, but I did use the Inquisition edict, and found my religious rating go up (I think) ten points, but my intellectual rating went down the same amount along with happiness. So, I just cancelled it.

(13-11-2009 03:52 PM)MadMax Wrote:  Ah so Tropico is a theocratic state (of sorts)?

And I agree with the annoying religious demands. Also I have yet to use the Book BBQ eddict as I have no idea WHY I would want to do that or even the Inquisition eddict. If anyone has actually used these for a reason, I'd love to hear why.

It could be actually. Here is the wikipedia article on a theocracy and what constitutes one:
Wikipedia article on Theocracy
I'd say if you created a Presidente that came to power via religious appointment and was a religious zealot, then yes... you have a theocracy. If you are taking that angle on your island you may be more apt to use the book BBQ or inquisition or any of the other religion based edicts. In a theocracy, free thinking is suppressed in the interest of making people buy into the religion, so Intellectuals and dissidents are silenced at all costs. It is truly one of the most oppressive forms of government.

I'd actually have to say the US. 3 times now they've threatened to invade my island! I've yet to have had the USSR really angry at me, not sure why...

The Nationalists are kind of annoying too - always complaining about immigration or not liking it when we ask others for help, geeze .

I actually don't find the religious faction too annoying - so long as you build them their churches and cathedrals and stay out of political matters they're pretty happy, unless your leader has traits to the contrary - but that's what makes Tropico so great - each game will be different for everyone .

(13-11-2009 10:44 PM)Rambutaan Wrote:  I'd actually have to say the US. 3 times now they've threatened to invade my island! I've yet to have had the USSR really angry at me, not sure why...

The Nationalists are kind of annoying too - always complaining about immigration or not liking it when we ask others for help, geeze .

I actually don't find the religious faction too annoying - so long as you build them their churches and cathedrals and stay out of political matters they're pretty happy, unless your leader has traits to the contrary - but that's what makes Tropico so great - each game will be different for everyone .

With me it's just the opposite. I get the USSR circling my island early on in the game if housing issues aren't satisfied quickly enough. Never has a problem with the US.

(12-11-2009 04:33 PM)FritoPatata Wrote:  #1 (most annoying) - The Religious - This group is a bunch of close minded pricks from game beginning to end. All they are interested in is restricting the freedoms of Tropicans and crippling the island with their backwards beliefs. First off, they demand a $6,000 church right away and dock you -20 respect for not having it, then once that is built they nearly immediately want a Catherdral built and dock you -10 respect for not having it. Never mind the cathedral costs 20 grand, requires 4 college workers when you might not even have a high school yet, and fills up with people immediately so that you have to build another Cathedral not to far down the road. Can't they just pray in their homes? As someone who in real life is college educated, not very religious, and a Libertarian to boot... their edicts are so far off in left field it makes me sick. Book burning is ridiculous, contraception bans are abhorring (even if STDs dont exist in game, what right does a religion have to dictate a couple's sex life? Much less having a government impose it?), inquisitions are stupid, prohibiting alcohol never works (look at the murder and crime rate in the US during that time, which doesn't even account for people who died drinking poisonous bootlegged alcohols), and don't even get me started on same-sex marriage. I am aware that my real life issues and beliefs naturally make me a strong opponent of this faction in game, but seriously, even beyond their freedom crushing edicts you can never satisfy them, and trying to do so will cost you tons of money.

Alright... *Cools Off* now that my rant is over, what is YOUR vote for the most annoying faction in the game?

I was called a bigot for opposing the same-sex marriage edict in the game.

I never used nasty hateful language of this sort towards gays.

If I am a bigot, then FritoPatata is ten times the bigot I am.

---

(13-11-2009 12:55 PM)Tropico Bob Wrote:  

(13-11-2009 08:06 AM)Calithorne Wrote:  Actually, no, I'm going to say what I really think. Fritopatata is a hateful bigot.

... and this is why you'll never get out of the -3. When you speak, or address others, you constantly add your moral, or political views into the mix thinking that this game is real life. Much less adding another post 5 hours later calling him names. Not everything is addressed to you personally. You actually look for people to dislike you. It's people like you that give religious morality a bad name.

I felt he was directing this thread constructively. If you look at most of the replies, you'll see that just about everyone has religion in their top 3 complaints, myself included for the reasons he stated.

Actually, I have five positive comments, which is just as many as you Tropico Bob.

The only reason I have negative reputation is because I refuse to remain silent when people make leftist comments on this forum.

You praise the game for including same-sex marriage, so I express my opposition. I get dinged.

You condemn Pinochet. I point out he saved Chile from Communism. I get dinged.

You make bigoted and hateful comments about Christians. I defend Christians. I get dinged.

You leftists are attempting to silence me, but I will not be silenced.

Every negative reputation point is a badge of honor.

@Calithorne- I stand by all my statements. Every single edict they have, with the exception of the papal visit, seeks to take away personal rights of people or other groups.

Books and literature are the backbone of society throughout the ages, burning them is indeed a BACKWARD idea. Without literature and writing, we have no science. We have no progress.
Contraception is a personal choice. Is it better to prevent having a baby you cannot care or provide for by using birth control, or is it better to have the child and not be able to provide for it. I advocate you should not have children until you are able to provide them with an enriched life. I don't want any government or church telling me I can't make this choice.
Inquisition killed many innocent people throughout Europe over the ages. I think we can all agree that noone should be slaughtered because they don't agree with a certain religion.
Prohibition of alcohol, again, a personal decision that the government is taking away. Just do any research on American prohibition and you will know why this is a bad idea, and how it ruined more lives than it ever saved. One of the worst decisions in U.S. history.
And same-sex marriage. Call it whatever you want to call it. If two people of the same sex want to share a tax burden, that is all the government should care about. It's yet another personal decision that the government should stay out of. As long as their checks keep coming in from two people, who care if it's on one tax form or two?

Now you may have misunderstood me in the original post... I am in favor of allowing same sex marriage or civil union. A religion can ban it all they want. but the government should not. I was commenting on how enacting the edict would hurt your standing with the religious faction.

Again, all of these things are backward thinking ideas that take away civil liberties. The only thing that could be misconstrued as me being a bigot is my opening statement of them being closed minded pricks. Well, I call it like I see it. If you cannot think progressively, and allow other people who believe differently than you do to do what they want as long as they are not hurting you... then that is the textbook definition of closed minded prick.

So to summarize... yes. My real life beliefs play into the feelings of negativity I have for this faction. Yes. they have backwards beliefs proven in their edicts that seek to stop progressive thinking and limit civil liberties. And Yes... I think they are close minded pricks because of it. This does not make me a bigot, they are entitled to their opinion, but they should take their opinions out of governing a country.

Also. Calling me a leftist is insulting, when I clearly state in my opening post that I am a Libertarian.

@Frito Patata
Well put, but I didn't think you needed to explain yourself. Your very first posting that started this thread explained it to my, and I'm sure others satisfaction.
It's your opinion, and I thought you stated it in a constructive manner, and didn't resort to childish name calling. Good thread guy.

The polls thus far seem to agree too.

FritoPatata,

The game does not accurately reflect modern day realities about Christianity, and in particular, Catholicism, which I assume is the religion of Tropico since it is supposed to be a Latin American country.

The Catholic Church hasn't burned books since the middle ages. There is still a list of disapproved books, but that is for moral guidance of Catholics. No burning is involved.

The Spanish Inquisition ended hundreds of years ago. No modern Latin American country has ever had an Inquisition.

The Catholic Church has never favored Prohibiition. Prohibition was an invention of American Protestants, actually a reaction to Catholic immigration. Catholics have no problem with moderate use of alcohol. Wine is used in the central sacrament of Catholicism. Many Catholic monastaries bottle wine and brew beer.

The only realistic edict is birth control ban and even there, the game has it backwards. In Latin America during the Cold War period, the birth control ban should be on as a default. It should take an edict to allow birth control. The reason the Catholic Church opposes birth control is hard to explain to people who grew up knowing only the total lack of all sexual morality that was caused when birth control became widespread in usage.

Same-sex marriage is game inappropriate because same sex marriage wsa never legal in any country in the world during the Cold War period. The game coders added this edict as a sop to the political correctness crowd.

I know "It's just a game" but if you're going to direct hate at Catholics you should realize you are directing hatred at a total distortion of what Catholicism is.

Furthermore, the game does not simulate the fact that in Latin America many schools, high schools, colleges, clinics and hospitals do not have to be paid for by the government because the Church is paying for them. This is all made possible by the generousity of Catholics around the world who put money in the basket at Sunday Mass.

I know a black woman lawyer who grew up in Bahamas. Her family lived in a shack with no electricity and no running water. But she went to Catholic school free of charge. Were it not for the Catholic Church, this woman would still be poor and ignorant and living in a shack.

You say you are a libertarian. Tell me one thing. Have libertarians helped anyone like the Catholic Church has? Is there a libertarian Mother Theresa? Is there a libertarian St. Francis of Assissi? No, there is not.

(13-11-2009 11:41 PM)Calithorne Wrote:  I know "It's just a game" but if you're going to direct hate at Catholics you should realize you are directing hatred at a total distortion of what Catholicism is.

I don't think he is directing hate to any specific religion, as he is voicing an opinion on religion as the game perceives it to be. He gave good constructive observations, and you appear to be taking it way too personally. Step back a bit, and re-think your approach.

(13-11-2009 11:41 PM)Calithorne Wrote:  Were it not for the Catholic Church, this woman would still be poor and ignorant and living in a shack.

I think you're mistaken ignorance for un-educated in this aspect. Although similar, they are quite different.

When I was growing up I did witness a Catholic Church refuse assistance, because a woman didn't belong to that particular perish, and my mother took up a donation drive to aid that particular woman.

(13-11-2009 11:41 PM)Calithorne Wrote:  FritoPatata,

The game does not accurately reflect modern day realities about Christianity, and in particular, Catholicism, which I assume is the religion of Tropico since it is supposed to be a Latin American country.

The Catholic Church hasn't burned books since the middle ages. There is still a list of disapproved books, but that is for moral guidance of Catholics. No burning is involved.

The Spanish Inquisition ended hundreds of years ago. No modern Latin American country has ever had an Inquisition.

The Catholic Church has never favored Prohibiition. Prohibition was an invention of American Protestants, actually a reaction to Catholic immigration. Catholics have no problem with moderate use of alcohol. Wine is used in the central sacrament of Catholicism. Many Catholic monastaries bottle wine and brew beer.

The only realistic edict is birth control ban and even there, the game has it backwards. In Latin America during the Cold War period, the birth control ban should be on as a default. It should take an edict to allow birth control. The reason the Catholic Church opposes birth control is hard to explain to people who grew up knowing only the total lack of all sexual morality that was caused when birth control became widespread in usage.

Same-sex marriage is game inappropriate because same sex marriage wsa never legal in any country in the world during the Cold War period. The game coders added this edict as a sop to the political correctness crowd.

I know "It's just a game" but if you're going to direct hate at Catholics you should realize you are directing hatred at a total distortion of what Catholicism is.

Furthermore, the game does not simulate the fact that in Latin America many schools, high schools, colleges, clinics and hospitals do not have to be paid for by the government because the Church is paying for them. This is all made possible by the generousity of Catholics around the world who put money in the basket at Sunday Mass.

I know a black woman lawyer who grew up in Bahamas. Her family lived in a shack with no electricity and no running water. But she went to Catholic school free of charge. Were it not for the Catholic Church, this woman would still be poor and ignorant and living in a shack.

You say you are a libertarian. Tell me one thing. Have libertarians helped anyone like the Catholic Church has? Is there a libertarian Mother Theresa? Is there a libertarian St. Francis of Assissi? No, there is not.

My problem is, yet again, directed toward the Religious faction of Tropico. It is not directed at Christians or Catholics in particular. I realize all of this, everything you said up above is true (except for the last paragraph), and I advocate all the charitable things that the christian world is doing. For that matter, I admire the charitable things that any religion is doing.

One of the basics ideas of libertarianism is forsaking government-run welfare in exchange for private charity such as that given by different religions and other neutral good Samaritans. The thinking being that with the significantly lower taxes, and incentives for even lower ones for charitable contribution, will drive enough private charity to provide for a countries less fortunate.

The cold-war era world that you reflect in your comments is completely accurate, in fact, my despising the religious faction is unfortunately the offshoot of the developers needing to give a system of positive and negative effects and assigning them to a particular group. Unfortunately for the religious, they took the brunt of this, because the edicts they chose were associated with the various sects of Christianity at one time or another. With modern thinking, it makes a lot of the things that they ask for completely absurd, which is why they are the most despised faction. You must understand, that no one here is attacking the real life Catholics, Protestants, Evangelists, whoever... they are stating that this in-game faction is intolerable. Because the religious faction in the game are, in fact, bigots.

A bigot is defined as a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices. In the game, because you refuse to make mandates that affect the personal choices of all citizens (not just ones who agree with them), you lose their respect. One sign of being a bigot is believing that because you believe one way that everyone should believe that way, which is why you would press for a law banning a civil liberty such as birth control.

All in all, this sounds like a big misunderstanding. You took my comments as a personal attack against real world christian factions such as Catholics. They were not. While I do not agree with their ideals in some forms, they are entitled to have and practice them as they see fit. My problem is when these beliefs find their way into law, which to me is ridiculous.

As to your final comment, it is hardly relevant because libertarianism is a modern idea and would not have existed in most of those people's respective eras. Even the philsophical idea of it is mostly an industrial age and forward belief. Regardless, how do you know that those people did not possess libertarian philosophies? You know who was libertarian? Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson (by modern interpretation), basically all of the United States forefathers shared libertarian beliefs. Thomas Jefferson was considered to have founded the Republican Party, but the republicans of yore were very much like the Libertarians of today.

I'm so glad you're a history buff. You shine a bright light in some of the dark areas of this game, and history itself. I think you're very educational for my reading leisure, and not as boring as my high school history teacher.

Keep up the informative observations.

---

(13-11-2009 10:52 PM)Calithorne Wrote:  Actually, I have five positive comments, which is just as many as you Tropico Bob.

The only reason I have negative reputation is because I refuse to remain silent when people make leftist comments on this forum.

That may be so IYO. It is not so much as what you say, as it is in how you say it, and others perceive you. You become enraged, and attack, and at times resort to name calling when none were done toward you. Most people are commenting on the game physics, mechanics & play. You turn it into your own stomping grounds, and shove your version of morality, and politics on us. This is what tees people off, leftist or otherwise. The way you communicate your thoughts is outrageous at times. People for the most part are just talking about a GAME for crying out loud.

(13-11-2009 10:52 PM)Calithorne Wrote:  You praise the game for including same-sex marriage, so I express my opposition. I get dinged.

You condemn Pinochet. I point out he saved Chile from Communism. I get dinged.

You make bigoted and hateful comments about Christians. I defend Christians. I get dinged.

You leftists are attempting to silence me, but I will not be silenced.

Every negative reputation point is a badge of honor.

You keep using the word YOU toward me. I hope this is not personally meaning ME. This is what I mean by "how you say it". You should have used THEY. I have not broad-casted any of those thoughts or comments.

I am in no way, shape or form a leftist, right-wing, etc. I fought, and witnessed my childhood best friend die in front of me in the name of freedom & against oppression, so that you can shove your beliefs down our throats. You are way out of line here if that was your intent.

Annoying for me are militarists. Soldiers do not produce and they are only good in bad times, when rebels arise, but always are asking stuff for them while the rest of tropico is still undeveloped. That annoys me a lot.

USA and URRS are a bit of annoying sometimes and they send ships to my islands most of the games because it is hard to be neutral and poor, so sometimes i start poor and capitalists and sometimes poor and comunist.

I have no issues with religious nor comunists, Indeed, building houses, churchs and bars is a priority to develope properly Tropico so they always are happy in my games. And as most of the voters are either religious or comunists indeed is good to make them happy just to win elections.

Capitalists, nationalists and environmentallists are so few than i don't mind ignoring them all the time... even if they are happy with my goverment.

Intelectuals do make issues at begining, but as soon i start making schools and newspapers intellectuals are fine and happy.

Tourists i don't think are a faction, they are something in between cows and logs, some raw material that when refined i make cash of it.

What I find annoying is not the factions, but the fact that I must provide so many social services free of charge. This presents a huge overhead.

I pay the workers, but what do they spend the money on? They get free food, religion, health care and education. The only thing they pay for is rent and entertainment.

The social service I most despise providing is health care because I must hire two college graduates to staff the clinic early in the game when I can't really afford it.

Another thing I don't like spending money on is military. The military is a huge drain on the economy and they are more of a threat than a benefit because they can overthrow me in a coup.

People have to remember the spirit of the game: control. You play a dictator for crying out loud. A dictator complaining about a faction's anti-democratic sentiments is pretty silly. Even overtures towards the intellectuals and the USA are motivated by the desire to keep power, not out of some sense of justice or liberty. You aren't out to please everyone or build a city on a hill-- you're out to hold on to power through whatever means possible. The various factions are nothing but a tool for you to use to achieve that end. So pick whichever ones will help you keep your grip on the nation. Please the factions with enough clout to keep you in office. If the rest don't like you, keep them down with the means at your disposal.

In that spirit, the Religious faction is actually quite useful. I've never needed to do more than throw up a couple churches to keep them happy. True, their decrees are quite heavy handed, but still useful. If you're out to please the Nationalists by shutting off immigration, you need their contraception ban to get the baby makers rolling out new workers. If your Intellectual faction is causing you grief by propagating ideas of freedom or revolution, burn their books to show them who's boss. Got a charismatic citizen creating rebels through fiery protest speeches? Proclaim him a heretic, so no Tropican will listen to his blasphemous lies. Most useful of all is the Inquisition for rooting out those who don't recognize your divine mandate to rule Tropico!

It's also true that they are expensive to please early in the game, with expensive buildings and workers. But that is true of most every faction! The intellectuals and militarists aren't any different in that respect. If you can't foot the bill for cathedrals, you can make up the difference through picking the right traits and praising them to the heavens in election speeches.

Zach

@ Zach,

I think you nailed it.