This thread has been produced in order to suggest ideas and discuss the up and coming Tropico 4. Developed by Haemimont Games and published by Kalypso Media.

Tropico 4 announcement.
The Discussion of Errors and Ideas (Tropico 3).

(18-08-2010 09:44 PM)Juanito Wrote:  This thread has been produced in order to suggest ideas and discuss the up and coming Tropico 4. Developed by Haemimont Games and published by Kalypso Media.

Tropico 4 announcement.
The Discussion of Errors and Ideas (Tropico 3).

Do you think it'd be better to be more specific? Economy ideas, military ideas, domestic ideas, etc..?

(18-08-2010 10:20 PM)IronFist Wrote:  Do you think it'd be better to be more specific? Economy ideas, military ideas, domestic ideas, etc..?

I don't think people want to be treated like morons. I hope that common sense would tell them to use their own headers for new ideas or categories.

Good thread idea my suggestions on a small scale would be
-build time difficulty setting
easy double time speed as current
medium keep like it is
hard double the time as right now
-some more almanac information like top exports from last year
-goods at the faciltiys and docks visible ingame again cause it provided alot of ingame information without having to browse through tons of building tabs (and ofc it´s always fun waiting for that ship to export 15 tons of gold)

Edict: Hallway Sleeping bags
Improves capacity of Tenements and Apartments by 50%, but housing satisfaction drops dramatically.

Edict: Legalized Prostitution
Gives a amount of money per month proportional to population, more with a Cabaret or Night Club. Decreases respect of religious, and citizens will require health care more often.

Edict: Two Plus Two Equals Five
All educated citizens will get a small permanent respect bonus upon graduation from High School or College (Stacks, of course). Reduces rate of education and overall liberty.

Edict: Labor Unions
Reduces overall productivity slightly, but provides a considerable bonus to job satisfaction.

Edict: City Beautification
Increases upkeep and beauty of all structures.

Edict: In Loving Memory
Gives soldiers that either die of old age or are killed in combat a grand state funeral. Costs a set amount per year and more per death. Gives a bonus to militarist respect.

More in-building upgrades. For example, farms should have a chicken coop that produces additional food for a base-line cost. Another upgrade could be a bus terminal at the garage, which would transport a group of 5 people to a destination, freeing up more space on the roads.
Also, more types of government offices. For example, we already have a Diplomatic Office and an Immigration Office. They should add a development office which would basically be a bank without the "Offshore Banking" option, with the actual bank changed significantly. Another new government office would be the customs office, which would either allow for increased income from exports due to excise taxes, or the money could be diverted into the SB account. A third office could be the Ministry of the Interior, which could set either pro-environmental, pro-industry, or anti-rebel modes, to represent what they are focusing on.

Thirdly, add the ability to influence what your people believe more. A communist, capitalist, nationalist and loyalist indoctrination ability on the high school and college would be good, as would the ability to exterminate a faction, which might cause an uprising if they have alot of support and your are already unpopular.

just my 2 cents...

In game real terraforming. Give us the ability to widen a gap in the mountains in order to be able to build a road to the highlands. Let us level a piece of land or extend the coastline. Go ahead and make these improvements cost money, we know that heavy earth-moving equipment isn't cheap. But people in real life to have the ability to do these things, and it would add to the realism and decrease the frustration level if we could as well.

And let us build bridges. Again, charge us for them, but make the thousands-year-old technology available.

Here are some of the suggestions that I have:

(1) Expansion for Swiss Bank Account.
Make the Swiss Bank Account play a much larger role in the game other then just the final score. Make certain edicts, actions, and upgrades available only though Presidente's 'personal funds'. For more information and related upgrade suggestions look at this thread I started sometime ago:
http://forum.kalypsomedia.com/showthread.php?tid=3571

(2) More buildings and industry
Some of the ideas that I find interesting includes:
National Library:
Increase the respect of the Intellectuals and one other faction. (Works in a way similar to the Enteral Flame.)
Coffee Shop:
Entertainment building that serves both your citizens and the tourist. Favorite hangout of the Intellectuals and Capitalist.
Textile Factory:
Make cheap T-shirt for export. A low cost industry that helps you start your economy early on. Requires only low skill workers.
Office buildings:
Attracts foreign investments. The Capitalist love these buildings. Create many middle class and a few upper class jobs. A must have in late game when your island start running out of resources.

(3) Fix Tourism
Fix the long standing problem in Tropico 3 in which the tourist hardly ever visit the attractions and the problem with your citizens not going to some entertainment buildings. Make tourism a profitable business instead of what it is right now.

(4) Historical Accuracy
Tropico 3 doesn't really bother me too much but based on a lot of the post on the forum it seems that many people were very upset about the game not being serious enough (particularly the Absolute Power Expansion Pack). Perhaps the game should be mainly a political simulator with some parody and humor here and there and not one with aliens, clones, and monsters.

I'd like more Models for each Building
To add some variety to the island
Also Parking spaces or Traffic Police to help guide the Traffic jams?

The more detail to the economic and political engine that Kalypso adds the better. I urge them to have some sort of money circulation in T4, so that players can keep better track of money in the Tropican economy and not let most of it simply disappear after tropicans get paid. That way the overall Tropican economy would be split in two: goverment and civilian. This would mean that tropicans actually save their money(much like they did in T2). El presidente could then tax the savings, or simply cease assets(reverse bribe) of individuals if he was short on money. Rich tropicans could even gain some power in the tropican society.

Quote:In game real terraforming. Give us the ability to widen a gap in the mountains in order to be able to build a road to the highlands. Let us level a piece of land or extend the coastline. Go ahead and make these improvements cost money, we know that heavy earth-moving equipment isn't cheap. But people in real life to have the ability to do these things, and it would add to the realism and decrease the frustration level if we could as well.

And let us build bridges. Again, charge us for them, but make the thousands-year-old technology available.

I stand by this suggestion wholeheartedly. Bridges and the ability to level land, fill-in water, etc.

Also, the idea of traffic lights to fix the traffic problems? Seems like one of those simple, forgotten things.

Quote:(1) Expansion for Swiss Bank Account.
Make the Swiss Bank Account play a much larger role in the game other then just the final score. Make certain edicts, actions, and upgrades available only though Presidente's 'personal funds'. For more information and related upgrade suggestions look at this thread I started sometime ago:
http://forum.kalypsomedia.com/showthread.php?tid=3571

I love this idea. Swiss banking should have some sort of direct reward. The idea of being incorruptible having opposing benefits sounds great as well.

More Game Mechanics

-It would be fun if you could specifically target a faction or certain people to live/work in certain areas. For example, if you were a militaristic Presidente, you could build condos and such and assign them to be only available for the military. Or the military only has access to the "Food for the People" edict, whereas the rest of the population has to deal with rations.

So excited for Tropico 4.

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Almost forgot another suggestion:

Special Characters

This could be perhaps a VIP tourist that shows up randomly on your island. Their opinion once leaving would have an in-game affect.

Likewise, there could be certain other special characters that pop up randomly and have a certain affect. Perhaps, for example, a Powerful General would appear. This would boost your military power, or if the Militarist faction is unhappy, he could defect to the rebels.

Special Events

This then brings to mind special events, such as the already-in-place National Holiday.

What about a Military Parade? I'm thinking along the lines of what the Soviets used to do in Red Square, although on a much smaller scale in Tropico.

The ability to have a wide road for this would be great, since you could march your soldiers down a nice boulevard.

I have a another one. I love playing the online challenges. Keep that, and have some sort of either in game tutiorial available on how to use it, or even just a printed or online manuel that decribes how to actually set the flags and such. Also, I would very much like to have other users be able to give a score or rating to the online challenges they play, as well as write a review. It could be a brief one, such as two hundred characters, I don't care. Just let me tell other players that this particular challenge will crash from an influx of 2000 refugees one the first boat, that immigration is off, rebel yell is on, or that is basically just a goaless sandbox challenge.

I really want a map editor!

I quite enjoy playing islands that are unusual in shape & one of the things I've found with every version of Tropico is the difficulty in generating them.

Some of the scenario maps are great but the computer will rarely generate such beautiful islands.

I'd be happy to settle for more interaction with the map creation in Sandbox mode but what I'd really like is to be able to create my own.

Also I'd quite like to have rivers (assuming we can build bridges) and the ability in game to terraform (to a limited extent which costs!) the island.

(23-08-2010 03:20 PM)Sakyamuni Wrote:  I really want a map editor!

I Second this Idea

(23-08-2010 03:24 PM)INFORIS Wrote:  

(23-08-2010 03:20 PM)Sakyamuni Wrote:  I really want a map editor!

I Second this Idea

It would add some extra "spice" to creating challenges...

Have an island be a barren mountain, and get a bunch of people living on it.

Quick thoughts;
* I want a map editor. I want larger islands. At least double.
* More population. I had populations of 3,000 people in T1. I barely get to 1,200 in T3.
* More buildings; national ones. I want to see landmarks and government agencies.
* More rebels. I rarely have a fight.
* War!
- Either have two nations on one island. You can peacefully co-exist, fight a war, or have a DMZ.
- Fight other nations. Is there an island nearby that is pro-US and you're a communist? Send troops to fight them.
- Possibly have control over soldiers in a fight. Much like you can control your avatar; I'm sick of seeing rebels attack my oil rig across the map and my soldiers beat them there by passing them on the roadway. Or even having 30 soldiers at the NW side of my farm and the rebels are coming from the SE.
* http://forum.kalypsomedia.com/showthread.php?tid=5667 Fighting ideas and military ideas I posted there. Summary: Military funeral and shoot for treason edict.
* Privatization of buildings, not just a one time thing. Or even the reverse; you make it private and you want to bring it back in as collective. Also make privatization not limited to industry; food and entertainment...ect...
* Banning more than one fraction.
* Larger government interaction. IE: Ministers or choices on government types and their relation to elections.

Lots more later and more detail; just immediate ideas. Maybe help someone else to come up with some.

I have to disagree with controlling soldiers in fight, you can do that in Command and Conquer or Starcraft.

Main focus of Tropico has to be in developing your island, not in real time strategy. Controlling units would ruin the game in similar way how Settlers was ruined after 2nd installment when you had to focus on unit control. Now 7th one is going a bit back to the roots with their system, you still can control your army, but not individual units.

I'd say there has to be more edicts.
I like the idea of being able to create either a really liberal, really conservative, really authoritarian or really modern society.

Perhaps a few like:

Legalizing abortion.
This lowers the respect of the religious faction, but increases that of the intellectuals greatly, and of all women, to an extent. It means a slight lowering in the birth rate.

Free Press
This basically privatizes any media present, so you no longer set what they report on. You collect revenue from them on a per citizen basis, and the US loves you for it. Liberty increases greatly. However, the USSR dislikes this, and any bad event, such as one person becoming a rebel, has a noticeable affect on your overall respect, as you can't suppress the news spreading. Or, if the USSR starts to dislike you, then the Communist faction's respect for you falls noticeably, as they will know about it. This makes it a slightly risky edict, but it pays off if you play the game right.

Legalize Scientific Research
This means a US Pharmaceutical company/ USSR Government Research agency sets up a centre on your island, and pays you rent. This lowers the respect of the religious faction considerably and also that of the nationalists, but increases intellectual respect. It basically legalizes research that is illegal in most countries, creating a little scientific paradise.

Offshore Banking
This means a foreign TNC sets up a headquarters in your island. It pays a large monthly rent, and several rich employees come live on your island, essentially acting like six permanent rich tourists. It does mean the US doesn't like you so much, as they lose out on tax, but, the capitalists love it as you are letting companies legitimately avoid taxes. The USSR doesn't like it much either. You can issue this edict up to five times, as one company invites it's partners, but you don't want to attract too much attention!

List on Wall Street
You gain a large cash sum, and US relations improve, as Americans invest in your nationally owned companies. If the company does well (lets say your cannery makes record profits year on year) then more people invest, and you get rich. However, if the company starts to lose money consistently over a period of time, the investors lose confidence and the company may collapse, meaning you have to start again. So, if the cannery does badly for several months, then you may have to demolish it. (This isn't properly thought out, it needs thinking through, but hopefully there's a worthwhile idea in there)

It'd also be good to see something like a telephone company. I mean, there's all the other media companies, why not telecommunications?

Also, i'd like to see a service industry. I mean, once you build a factory and the economy starts to climb, you can't do much more other than build more factories. By 1985-1990, most of my Tropicans are ready for the service industry! I raise their wages so high farmers are on $15 and the highest earners on $50, but they only spend it on housing and the movies!
It'd be better to see stuff like a supermarket, which you can either run yourself or let a foreign company come in. But, the company only comes in when tropicans are rich enough. Perhaps, let the richer tropicans use the tourist resorts too. Not the hotels, but the spa and so on.
Perhaps, you can choose between routes for this service industry. Not an ultimate choice, you should be able to nationalize and privatize. But, you can start Tropico-owned Tropico-Mart and run a supermarket (or appropriate company) yourself (not literally run it, but you know have the five or six methods), or let Wal-Mart come in and do it for you.

Anyway, i've plenty more to say that i'd like to see in T4, but I think that's enough. Most of what's said here isn't what i'd have to see in T4, just suggestions that i'm sure Kalypso can modify to make it more playable/relevant to T4.

You can be sure there won't be any walmart on My island

The US will have to invade the place and topple my government

The UN will have to pass a f****** binding resolution to keep me from destroying it

However, I'd like it if privatization was indeed more elaborate, which I think we can safely hope since the emphasis seems to be on the economic side of things. The possibility of importation also means non-renewable-ressources-dependant-industries will be more interesting

What I'd really wish for thought, is some prospection edict to allow for the discovery of new oil and/or mineral deposits, but especially offshore oil deposits. Or at least a way to regenerate these ressources.

Maybe a couple oil-related edicts? Like joining OPEC? instead of a military base, you could build them a headquarter / convention center on your island, which would give you a bonus on oil exports, but no protection from military invasion, contrary to a formal alliance. Prerequisite would obviously be to have an oil rig / offshore plateform

How about a one-timer edict like "Lying about oil reserves", prerequisite: having a TV station and being an oil exporter. Maybe being an OPEC member. You tell the world the reserves are almost depleted, which hikes the price for a few years. USA is then pissed at your bluff.

I've thought of something else which would revolutionise the game (at least for me).

Back in Tropico 1 you could toggle the vegetation on & off allowing you to see an island's basic geography (very useful when using the overlays). I would love to have this function back as at the moment I have to save the game & then use the build function to clear trees so I can see the full extent of resources before I return to my virgin saved game.

I like to keep as much of the natural vegetation as possible so getting this function back would help my enjoyment as well as my planning of the game.

I just played a game, had 4 ideas:

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1. Set El Presidente to auto.

El Presidente gets options like "Visit industry," "Visit construction," "Visit raw materials," etc. When selected, you visit all structures of that type.

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2. Amount of food needed vs. amount of food available.

This must be in the current build, but I can't find it.

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3. Go to dead citizen.

When you hear an NPC die, press a button to see what killed them.

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4. Online challenges auto-create forum threads.

When you win or lose an online challenge, you're directed to the thread about the challenge.

1) Public transportation (bus)
2) Riots, mass protest who can be repressed by the army or the police.
3) Tanks, not just soldier in your army.
4) Military Parades, Worker Parades etc
5) Currency, decide if print your own currency (with the risk of inflation etc if the economy go bad), or join the ECCB etc
6) Divide the "country" in province, rebels can take power on the province and give problem to the government.
7) Parliament, you can decide if create or no a parliament who can be free or just controlled by the government...

We need more transportation options. Currently, there is not enough in place to make sure that your citizens can efficiently move around in their cars on larger islands.

- Traffic lights
- Avenues, or at least roads with a turning lane, or with a shoulder so cars can pull to the side and drop people off without stopping traffic behind them
- Bridges
- Public transportation. At least a bus system, maybe even a rail system?

As a Tropico 1 disciple... really no need for even more transport!

Just finished a scenario with nearly 1000 people a few minutes ago... and got not more traffic-jams than with 250 peeps. So I don't understand that constant yell. Read and use your own transportation-guide!

chellenge editor allowing the creator to place buildings. I would like that. So when users start playing the challenge you have a map created by the challenge creator.

(25-08-2010 04:00 PM)FritoPatata Wrote:  We need more transportation options. Currently, there is not enough in place to make sure that your citizens can efficiently move around in their cars on larger islands.

- Traffic lights
- Avenues, or at least roads with a turning lane, or with a shoulder so cars can pull to the side and drop people off without stopping traffic behind them
- Bridges
- Public transportation. At least a bus system, maybe even a rail system?

I agree with all these suggestions but the first.

Traffic lights are a safety measure, not an efficiency measure. The whole operation of traffic lights sacrifices efficiency for safety.

As traffic safety is not a problem in Tropico atm, they are a complete waste and would slow down your system.

(25-08-2010 11:03 PM)midnightflash Wrote:  As a Tropico 1 disciple... really no need for even more transport!

Just finished a scenario with nearly 1000 people a few minutes ago... and got not more traffic-jams than with 250 peeps. So I don't understand that constant yell. Read and use your own transportation-guide!

Just because some of the more advanced Tropico gamers out there have figured out how to reduce traffic jams doesn't mean that the game shouldn't have more measures in place to reduce them. Not to mention, the ways in which we have to go about crafting our transportation system to prevent all these traffic jams are highly unrealistic.

Higher capacity roads would go a very long way in curbing this problem, not to mention add plenty of beautification options for your downtown areas. We have seen in the pre-game movies an avenue that has a median filled with trees and plants... why isn't this in the game??

Maybe I have very high expectations for a transportation system being a direct disciple of the Simcitys and Transport Tycoons of the world, but it seems to me that at the very least, wider roads with more capacity should be easy to implement.

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(26-08-2010 01:10 AM)IronFist Wrote:  

(25-08-2010 04:00 PM)FritoPatata Wrote:  We need more transportation options. Currently, there is not enough in place to make sure that your citizens can efficiently move around in their cars on larger islands.

- Traffic lights
- Avenues, or at least roads with a turning lane, or with a shoulder so cars can pull to the side and drop people off without stopping traffic behind them
- Bridges
- Public transportation. At least a bus system, maybe even a rail system?

I agree with all these suggestions but the first.

Traffic lights are a safety measure, not an efficiency measure. The whole operation of traffic lights sacrifices efficiency for safety.

As traffic safety is not a problem in Tropico atm, they are a complete waste and would slow down your system.

I agree that they are all about safety and not efficiency... however, if the developers were to implement higher capacity roads such as avenues, you would really need some sort of stoplight system in place particularly for an intersection of two avenues.

But... crazier things have happened in Tropico. I wouldnt be surprised to see an avenue intersection without a stoplight where cars just zip through at will and no one ever hits each other.

(26-08-2010 02:28 PM)FritoPatata Wrote:  But... crazier things have happened in Tropico. I wouldnt be surprised to see an avenue intersection without a stoplight where cars just zip through at will and no one ever hits each other.

I motion that we petition to have this feature introduced into real life.

(26-08-2010 08:48 PM)Tealeaf Wrote:  

(26-08-2010 02:28 PM)FritoPatata Wrote:  But... crazier things have happened in Tropico. I wouldnt be surprised to see an avenue intersection without a stoplight where cars just zip through at will and no one ever hits each other.

I motion that we petition to have this feature introduced into real life.

No need for a petition. It will be our daily traffic-life in 20-30 years. (Indeed they are working on such systems.) Just be patient for a day or two.

How about the ability to create nationalized companies? This creates a nice front for you to do all kinds of crap with somewhat limited liability.

-Creating the company takes a substantial initial buy-in. This is something you do if you are already rich and want to get much, much richer.
-Since the company sells directly to the people rather than through another corporation, profits will increase.
-I have the option to take investors on board. With this, I can take the investors' money on a phony industry I don't have (easy $$, serious hit to relations), I can get more money to expand my industry, or I can lose a lot of $$ from people selling stock in the "World Market Crisis" disaster. Or I can simply choose to not let them cash in on their shares, which would be another hit to my credibility, my (err.. the people's ) company's credibility, and will anger the superpowers.
-If a nationalized company looks bad it will take some of the heat off the country itself.
-If a nationalized company does poorly or gets a bad reputation, I can scrap it for cash, after which I can start a new one doing the same thing with a fresh start

Say I'm exporting a lot of cigars, and I want to maximize my profits. So I build an office complex and assign it to my to my tobacco industry.
The initial buy-in to start it up is 30K, not including the farms and factories. I have to designate what factories and farms belong to the company, although they are still mine ) After it starts, the cost of cigars is lowered by 20% for two years (start-up time). After the two years is up, the cost of cigars raises by 10% /year up to 40% more than where I started after time.
Then I want more money to expand my industry, and I need the money. Then I can sell shares of Tropico Tobacco to foreign investors for a considerable sum of money, say $20K, but it will be kept in a separate account from the main treasury, and whatever I spend that on will belong to Tropico Tobacco. If I spend the investor money on trivial things (say a Cabaret) people might start selling shares. One of these investors may make some interesting "business propositions" from time to time, i.e. large sum of money to privatize Tropico Tobacco ( cigar factories, office, tobacco farms). Or they could offer me favorable rates for imports, or to put in a good word to the US or USSR, or possibly something much more corrupt.

That will be in Tropico 4: Corporate Corruption!!