(31-03-2011 02:55 PM)Maximo Wrote:  @ douglas & computertech:

Consider for a second that the Unreal Engine (1-3) has spawned over 200 games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unr...ine_games) and this is only one of many examples.

As you can tell by the list, some VASTLY different games were crafted from the same engine and a new engine is hardly a 'necessity' to launch a new version of a game.

What matters is qualitative gameplay improvements, graphics & performance enhancements and new game features (yes...like 20 new buildings and social media integration).

And I'm sorry man, but if you think T1 and T3 are the same game, I doubt I can change your mind. Point is, if this bothers you so much, don't buy it and don't support Kalypso/Haemimont.

Tropico 4 NEW GAME
[quote='kalypsomedia.com]
Features:
- New campaign consisting of 20 missions on 10 new maps
- 20 new buildings including Stock Exchange, Shopping mall, Aqua Park and a Mausoleum to El Presidente
- Six new interactive disasters including volcanoes, droughts and tornadoes
- Council of Ministers – selected citizens to mimisterial posts in the government to help push through your more controversial decisions
- National Agenda – receive objectives from Tropican factions, foreign geopolitical powers or opportunities relating to current island events such as ongoing disasters
- Facebook and Twitter integration (PC-only features)
- Screenshot gallery – take screenshots of your tropical paradise and share on your Facebook page (PC- only Feature)
- Trading system – import and export goods to/from other nations to boost your economy or production

I actually agree with you in so many points. A new engine is not necessary, but was my way to say that to launch a new version you need to actually change the gameplay completely. Not have more of the same. Look at the reviews of the game: More of the same!

Unreal Engine and many others, such as Half Life engine launched a lot of games: HF, Portal, L4D etc. As you can see it's the same engine but COMPLETELY different game.

Quote:[...]qualitative gameplay improvements, graphics & performance enhancements and new game features [...]

Yes, enough to have a new version, but 20 new buildings and social integration is hardly that.

Everything you put as Tropico 4 new features are addons and mods. Can hardly even be an expansion. But yes, would be fair enough. But new version?! OMG, I seriously disagree.
When I hear new version is like, WOW, what should I expect? "It's a new version, I'm excited to see what they put there." MUST be different, must change the way you play it. Just see the examples I told you: SimCity. You can't imagine what is SimCity 4 by playing SC3. It's a new version.
But Tropico 4 I know exactly what it is. It Tropico 3 with Absolute Power expansion. More of the same!!

L4D is also an example of what to not do. A lot of people complained about Valve, first was too early to launch new version, second was practically the same game.

Put new campaign, 20 new buildings and screenshot gallery as a feature of a new version is a SHAME. How can they even do that? 20 new building is clearly something you say for an expansion. It's not like redesigned buildings, is 20 new building. It refers to the old ones, because is 20 new ones. If it refers to the old ones is the same fucking game! How can you disagree with that? You will have the same buildings of Tropico 3 and 20 more. How that is a new version????

YES, I don't think it's worth it, and SURE my money won't go to Kalypso. I already regret buying Tropico 3. I don't feel is a tycoon game but some 3D stuff to look at. Nothing more than this, after a while your game is so slow that you can't do anything.
If I want to create scenarios I play Garry's Mod.

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The features you listed is almost hilarious.

- Facebook and Twitter integration (PC-only features)
- Screenshot gallery – take screenshots of your tropical paradise and share on your Facebook page (PC- only Feature)

Facebook integration is one item. Then share screenshots on Facebook is ANOTHER item?! OMG. What is Facebook integration then???? It's like they just wanna fill the list with something?!

Why they are so greedy? To destroy Tropico serie? I'm very glad that Kalypso took Tropico from the death and bring it back to life, but now they are burying it again.
Just think, you, top manager of Kalypso, thinking about your goals and pressures from shareholders, EA manage to bury Command and Conquer serie by launching versions after versions with same engine and nothing more than skin change. Now SC2 got all their customers and I highly, highly doubted they will go back to C&C serie. People are not stupid and they don't like to be threated like it.

Also Tropico, as C&C, is not so friendly with the community. Where is the possibilities to modify the game, to make mods?! To change the buildings? To even add new buildings? You keep community from doing that for free, so you can do and charge??

Please, if you want to be a success follow the leader of your market: Blizzard. Sure they have more money than you, sure they have more history and players, but that is for a reason, no? Which reason is that? Why people still play Transport Tycoon Deluxe, a game that is 16 years old! 16 years I must say again. If the most active community I know. Be friends with your customers and don't trick them with marketing schemes and you might be more successful.

(31-03-2011 09:52 PM)Maximo Wrote:  

(31-03-2011 09:19 PM)computertech Wrote:  It's not just a "new" engine....it's more of a "improved" engine that some are looking for.....

Agreed. I think we saw some of those engine improvements in T3:AP with improved pathfinding, minor graphics and bug fixes and the additions of the floating "sick" and "hungry" indicators.

I'm sure Haemimont is packing a bunch of these upgrades into T4...but they're not exactly glamorous, which is why we won't hear about them...especially at this early stage.

If you look to the Features list above, putting "Feature: - Introducing 4 lane roadways!" isn't exactly a selling point that belongs with the rest of the stuff on that list. Sure, it's a great addition, and sure we as fans will notice it, but it's not exactly something you put on the box or announce as a big new feature.

And in the case that they did, I highly suspect that people would flame saying "4 lane roadways!? WTF!?! That's soo basic and they expect to call this T4 and a whole new game and charge full game price?!"...so they're damned either way. Point is, we all want to see upgrades/improvements to the engine and there is no doubt in my mind we will.

lol! Well, i'm diffently not saying only add 4lane roads...hahahaha. But something you agreed on....the improvement on the engine. That in itself could correct/add the 4lane roads for example.
But the point would be a improved engine...something that really makes it worth getting. Not just a expansion with more buildings, ministers, and importing goods (sounds like a expansion to me).
I like the idea of more buildings, etc. but not really at a full price, as you have to admit, it didn't take them much effort to create the additions as it's STILL tropico3. So they didn't have to "build a game". They only had to ADD some things to it.....

Hey, nobody commented on the photo I linked in Page 1!

Your thoughts? Do you guys think it's the new Courthouse?

After careful inspection myself, there's a chance it might either be the existing Gourmet Restaurant or Condominiums. I want to know what some other people think, if I'm on to something or way off the mark.

^ I do like the pedestrianised area and the parked cars, I hope they aren't just kinda photoshopped in to make it look good.
and a darker shaded restaurant just left of the palace?

(07-04-2011 07:32 PM)astondb9 Wrote:  ^ I do like the pedestrianised area and the parked cars, I hope they aren't just kinda photoshopped in to make it look good.
and a darker shaded restaurant just left of the palace?

The "parked cars" seems to be really part of a building, but the building is mostly hidden from view.

(07-04-2011 10:04 PM)computertech Wrote:  

(07-04-2011 07:32 PM)astondb9 Wrote:  ^ I do like the pedestrianised area and the parked cars, I hope they aren't just kinda photoshopped in to make it look good.
and a darker shaded restaurant just left of the palace?

The "parked cars" seems to be really part of a building, but the building is mostly hidden from view.

Top of said building looks kinda like a casino...

could they be part of the courthouse? they look like police cars to me, and theres always police cars outside courts..

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oh, also, anyone think they found the fire station yet?

(07-04-2011 07:07 PM)Maximo Wrote:  Hey, nobody commented on the photo I linked in Page 1!

Your thoughts? Do you guys think it's the new Courthouse?

After careful inspection myself, there's a chance it might either be the existing Gourmet Restaurant or Condominiums. I want to know what some other people think, if I'm on to something or way off the mark.

The shopping mall looks so modern compared with the style of 1950s.

So I'm wondering if it's built in 1980s onwards or in the initial stage of the island.

To be blunt..the shopping mall look far too large for a island country with 300 people. How many small towns have a shopping mall the size of a block?

(10-04-2011 07:23 PM)computertech Wrote:  To be blunt..the shopping mall look far too large for a island country with 300 people. How many small towns have a shopping mall the size of a block?

I agree it does look far too big for the current population size. I doubt the few hundred residents could support such a large shopping centre. Maybe they are increasing the islands scale (hopefully) ? I think the green building is a Justice ministry or something, note all the police cars.

I agree with the above posts, the shopping mall looks far too large and far too modern. Instead i would rather see several smaller shops, so i could create my own shopping district. I would also like to see some higher class businesses and attractions for my elite tropicans ! maybe a golf club to go to, or an upmarket department store (i think the department store would be better than a shopping mall, could be similar size to cathederal maybe?). Also, as someone mentioned before i better source of food, a supermarket would look better than a marketplace made out of huts.

(10-04-2011 03:36 PM)Little Dragon Wrote:  

(07-04-2011 07:07 PM)Maximo Wrote:  Hey, nobody commented on the photo I linked in Page 1!

Your thoughts? Do you guys think it's the new Courthouse?

After careful inspection myself, there's a chance it might either be the existing Gourmet Restaurant or Condominiums. I want to know what some other people think, if I'm on to something or way off the mark.

The shopping mall looks so modern compared with the style of 1950s.

So I'm wondering if it's built in 1980s onwards or in the initial stage of the island.

I agree . Shopping mall completely ruins that lovely 50's feeling but if you will be able to build it only in later stages ( 90's-00's ) when you have a lot of people I don't mind it

i think there trying to step up the time scales. maybe well see more modern buildings and perhaps modernizing the presidential palace.

(13-04-2011 02:22 AM)jerry1305 Wrote:  i think there trying to step up the time scales. maybe well see more modern buildings and perhaps modernizing the presidential palace.

That would have been...different...but if you look at the screenshoot, you can clearly see the t3 buildings have NOT changed at all, including the palace. I've stated it before, It's still tropico 3 with some add-ons...nothing more.

I don't see a problem with them using all the Tropico 3 buildings, as there was nothing wrong with them. It would probably take twice as long to re-design every single one, atleast this way they could take more time to develop the new ones.

I don't really think the palace needs chaning either, i think its a cool link to the original game. As far as i'm aware very little has chnaged about it, if anything at all.

Also, having thought about the shopping mall issue, i don't think it will be too bad as time goes by, for example once the stadium is build and the 'Hotel Paradise'. I think with those two large buildings near by, it would blend in a little more. And obviously, if we don't like i doubt theres an obligation to build it. lol.

(14-04-2011 01:22 PM)RGT94 Wrote:  And obviously, if we don't like i doubt theres an obligation to build it. lol.

Aha! If Presidente wishes, he will keep the Capitalist pig-dogs and their shoppings malls away! Muahahaha!

(14-04-2011 08:12 PM)Maximo Wrote:  

(14-04-2011 01:22 PM)RGT94 Wrote:  And obviously, if we don't like i doubt theres an obligation to build it. lol.

Aha! If Presidente wishes, he will keep the Capitalist pig-dogs and their shoppings malls away! Muahahaha!

ahh, i like the way you think !

Actually, was in Baja California and in there was a bright new Mall in the middle of a section of town that, all around, was obviously much older. It was an investment, the Mexican government was hoping that buy having the private enterprise build the huge mall the area around it would become more desirable and draw people. Looked busy when we went by.

(20-04-2011 05:29 AM)seasnake Wrote:  .. was in Baja California and there was a bright new Mall in the middle of a section of town that, all around, was obviously much older. ...

And what year was that? And do you really take Baja as a model for a Caribbean island?

(20-04-2011 03:41 PM)CoconutKid Wrote:  

(20-04-2011 05:29 AM)seasnake Wrote:  .. was in Baja California and there was a bright new Mall in the middle of a section of town that, all around, was obviously much older. ...

And what year was that? And do you really take Baja as a model for a Caribbean island?

Well considering we don't know when the Mall was built in the screen shot, the year isn't relevant, it's just a question of look. The point was the rest of the city looked like it could have been something from the 1960s/1970s while the Mall looked Space Age by comparison.

To your second ... yes! There is not a building in Tropico that you cannot build in Baja and have it look completely normal. Tijuana's housing is row after row of apartments constructed in the 50s and 60s in places, the beaches have shanty/bunkhouse types of structures, the open air markets and small cantinas are everywhere. It's a good model.

seasnake --- Too bad you weren't there instructing the PopTop developers.

Well, they did spawn one great franchise. For long time I was a junkie of the City Builders from Sierra (Caesar III, Pharaoh, Zeus, etc.) but Tropico really seized the torch and ran with it.

It's got some flaws of course, but I've really enjoyed 3 and I have a lot of hope that 4 will be a proud entry.

I too think that mall just looks far too modern and unattractive for the area. It looks like it belongs in current-day Singapore or even China but certainly not in my beloved island paradise!

Another building I never really liked in T3 was the sports stadium. It was just so bland and boring! It's doubtful whether a fledgling island nation would have built an indoor stadium, being so much more expensive than building stands around a field. If I think of Central and South America I think of massive open-air stadiums with atmosphere! It's like they just took the easy option so they didn't have to animate people in the stands and on the field playing, but that would have added a very nice touch!

I thought the airport in T3 was well done and it was cool to watch people sun baking at the beach, so they have made an effort to create custom animations for the sims before.

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Also, is it just me or do the graphics in the teaser shot above and in the teaser trailer look noticeably better than T3?

A new graphics engine would go a long way to explaining a new version at full retail. I play T3 at 2560 x 1440 with maxed out graphics settings and I don't think I can get it looking as good as that picture or the teaser trailer. The generals in the trailer at the end when the observer was knocked over seem very highly detailed, or is that not intended to be actual in game footage (kind of like the cut scenes in T3, which look hideously blurry when played at the above resolution by the way).

(22-04-2011 04:18 PM)simon Wrote:  ... Another building I never really liked in T3 was the sports stadium. It was just so bland and boring! It's doubtful whether a fledgling island nation would have built an indoor stadium, being so much more expensive than building stands around a field. If I think of Central and South America I think of massive open-air stadiums with atmosphere! It's like they just took the easy option so they didn't have to animate people in the stands and on the field playing, but that would have added a very nice touch! ...

Your analysis is mostly right-on -- except for the animation. The building is indeed an unimaginative lump of East-European communist art. At least T1 had the taste to have a decorative building to try to gloss over the real problem of animation inside a building even if it is an open field. Yes - it's easy enough to do if the animations are simply spawn of the building and have no connection with the avatars of the units who are entering and exiting the building with a life outside the building. Building spawn vs the independent units would be a spanner in the gears of the "suspension of disbelief" that game designers work against.

T1 originally conceived to have several "open buildings," such as a plaza, which had to be aborted because of the problem of having unit annimations transition visually, seamlessly into and out of buildings.

I always thought the stadium was so big, ugly and covered so any kind of sport could be 'imagined' underneath. (Olympic stadium, or football, baseball, cricket, etc)

but I think i've only ever placed it once, and was quite unimpressed for what I got for that cost and size.

I would like much smaller playing fields (and the option to place just basic green spaces) as parks. Surely this would be a much cheaper way of entertainment than something like a cinema.

(22-04-2011 04:18 PM)simon Wrote:  I too think that mall just looks far too modern and unattractive for the area. It looks like it belongs in current-day Singapore or even China but certainly not in my beloved island paradise!

Another building I never really liked in T3 was the sports stadium. It was just so bland and boring! It's doubtful whether a fledgling island nation would have built an indoor stadium, being so much more expensive than building stands around a field. If I think of Central and South America I think of massive open-air stadiums with atmosphere! It's like they just took the easy option so they didn't have to animate people in the stands and on the field playing, but that would have added a very nice touch!

I thought the airport in T3 was well done and it was cool to watch people sun baking at the beach, so they have made an effort to create custom animations for the sims before.

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Also, is it just me or do the graphics in the teaser shot above and in the teaser trailer look noticeably better than T3?

A new graphics engine would go a long way to explaining a new version at full retail. I play T3 at 2560 x 1440 with maxed out graphics settings and I don't think I can get it looking as good as that picture or the teaser trailer. The generals in the trailer at the end when the observer was knocked over seem very highly detailed, or is that not intended to be actual in game footage (kind of like the cut scenes in T3, which look hideously blurry when played at the above resolution by the way).

Hello friend!

Do you happen to be a dwarf and dig holes? The diggy diggy kind?

I really don't want modernisation in the game, I like that it feels old! I'd really like smaller building e.g. sports stadium, zoo, garages as they are totally out of proportion. Also I'd like the apartment blocks and tenements to hold more families, its not realistic to the building size. I'd also like an easier way of changing the colour/style of the building.. Unless I'm doing it wrong though but I always have to select what I want, deselect and select again until the right one turns up.. its especially annoying when trying to place down parks/ statues etc. I'd also like an expansion of the types of farms currently available, with extra crop choices e.g. rubber trees, oranges, coconuts and what ever other crops you can think of to widen the post production side so a rubber plant, a citrus fruit factory etc. I really like building my industries in Tropico so I'd like further expansion to this mainly, I begrudgingly add Tourism if there isn't something I can mine/ harvest or fish.. ooh talking of fish, could we make it commercial fishing also not just feeding the populace, we could have fish factories then and upgrade them from canned to frozen etc. I'd also like further options on building types and be able to move building placed for me e.g. move the palace as long as I've constructed another one.

(25-04-2011 09:05 PM)Dr. Archibald Wrote:  Hello friend!

Do you happen to be a dwarf and dig holes? The diggy diggy kind?

Hahaha. I have no idea what you're talking about but sure, why not!

List of buildings in the opening post of this thread has been updated with No. 8: Horticulture Station.

This building has been added based on the new info revealed in the awesome new interview over at Gamer's Guide To Life, courtesy of Hawke. You can find it here: http://www.gamersguidetolife.com/2011/05...cio-4.html .

'GGTL Tropico 4 Interview - May 4, 2011 Wrote:The Horticulture Station is a new building that affects your agriculture. It can be used to plant forests, turn all of your agricultural production organic, or you can dabble in the dark arts of genetically modified corn.

Discuss.

Love the idea of being able to influence my crops this way, was hoping for something like this in T4
Would hardly connect genetically modified corn to the darks arts though