Your suggestions
#1
Ahoy!

This thread will be the contact point for your ideas, wishes and suggestions regarding PR3.

I will read and note every suggestion, but have on mind that not every idea can be implemented.

Please understand that I can't answer every question at this time.

We are already curious about what is important to you in PR3 Smile

Kind regards,

Daan
Reply
#2
Well......

As I already posted in the other topic:

It's my understanding the game is still in the Alpha-fase, however I do have a shipload (pun intended Big Grin ) of questions I'd like to see answered.

So I'm just gonna fire 'em off; hoping all will be answered over time.

1) Asuming the engine of Patrician IV is used, does that mean that:
a) trading once again has to be done with sliders? Many players - including myself - prefer the "1", "10" , "100", "max" buttons used in the previous Patrician and Port Royale games
b) Are naval battles being fought at ending maps; like in PR2; or endless maps; like in Patrician IV

2) Do we have ship imports as we had in PR2 or are we able to build our own ships now.

3) Assuming players can once again capture towns for other nation when at war:
a) Do we get a reward like the gifts from the vice-roy to found your own city
b) do we have the option to attack from land or from sea? Or perhaps a combined attack, like destroying a certain amount of cannon towers, before being able to land your troops.

4) Added to the one above: is it possible to attack a pirate's hide-out over land this time as well?

5) Regarding shiptypes:

a) How many shiptypes are going to be available;
b) Does every country have their own special ship (like in PR2)
c) Is there the ability to research ship improvements?

6) Does the player get special rewards like the bonus ship and the player towns (vice-roy gift) we had in PR2 or the Hide-out we had in PR?

7) Is the player able to export / import goods to / from Europe this time?

8) Is the map build up according the historical possession of the area (PR), or according a grouped possession of the area (as in PR2)

9) Do we need raw materials and resources to produce goods; i.e. sugar + wood = rum; like we have in Patrician IV and PR or just the resources; i.e. sugar => rum like we had in PR 2?

10) One of the major flaws of PR2 (imho) was the fact that after a war a hostile nation was allowed to attack and loot my convoys, but that defending them was considered piracy.
Can't this be changed into no access to towns of hostile nations for the player and an immediate declaration of war by the other nations if any convoy attacks the player; while the only way for a player to gain access to a nation's towns is by paying a large fund to the vice-roy (as was already happening in PR2).

10) Another suggestion: Instead of getting money, can't we get money, an amount of goods and settlers after destroying a notorious pirate's hide-out? Perhaps even a piece of a map, eventually leading to a special hide-out or anchor spot (special ship). Even adding crew members to maximize the amount of crew aboard the ships is an option. After all, the hide-out had inhabitants and I doubt they all got killed.

I think that's enough for the moment. When more questions pop up, I'll continue this post.

Thorin Smile

And:

(13-08-2011, 07:38 PM)Falko Wrote: 11) is there a bad guy/pirate "career" planned?
12) are there options at the start of a game to get a more action/figthing oriented game or a more game with more of a challenge in economy?

Is that enough?? Big Grin


Thorin Smile
Hack seinen Kopf ab. Ich brauche einen Aschenbecher!
Reply
#3
(24-08-2011, 02:21 PM)Thorin Oakshield Wrote: Is that enough?? Big Grin

Big Grin NEVEEERR!! Tongue Big Grin

Thanks a lot for sharing the many thoughts with us!
Lot of questions! You will get the answers, but I can't give 'em away right now. Sorry - We have got to keep our secrets for a while to our selfs Wink You'll get your answers soon.

But most of your questions imply some kind of hidden interests and I will note these like in the following example, so the things you've mentioned will not disappear:
Quote:Does every country have their own special ship
Guess you want to have a special ship for each nation, huh? Smile


Reply
#4
(24-08-2011, 03:46 PM)Daan Hugo Wrote: But most of your questions imply some kind of hidden interests and I will note these like in the following example, so the things you've mentioned will not disappear:
Quote:Does every country have their own special ship
Guess you want to have a special ship for each nation, huh? Smile

Well, actually I'd like to see PR3 become a mixture of the older PR, PR2 and Tortuga: Pirate Hunter.

In PR players had a hide-out no-one could visit, in PR2 players were able to found cities, while in Tortuga they had a hide-out again.
A great feature of PR 2 was the fact that each nation had their own special ship. If not mistaken those were the Military Corvette for the French, the Military Frigate for the English, the Galleon for the Spanish and the Trading Flute for the Dutch. You could buy the ship of your homecountry for a "normal" price, while the special ships of the other countries were more expensive until your standing with that particular nation had reached a certain point.

But in general the mission part of the game as well as the special parts and the hidden parts of the game were what attracted me to PR2 the most.

Thorin Smile
Hack seinen Kopf ab. Ich brauche einen Aschenbecher!
Reply
#5
Wasn't it the "Liner" for English?

i'd like to have both, hide-out for pirate career, founding cities for mercenary career?
Lebe jeden Tag, als wäre es Dein Letzter! / Live each day as it would be your last!
[Image: http://imghost4you.com/images/46.png]
Reply
#6
Nice, pretty good ideas!
Reply
#7
Hey, i am so happy to hear about this, you should advertise the game more, its one of games i would include in my game hall of fame if i had one Tongue

Well i still play pr2 last time 2 weeks ago actualy.


What i would love to see is some kind of independence in very late game where you could get several cities as in pr2 just make it something like war for independence like USA form the Brits later in real world did, because well we all know 5 ships of the line supported by 2/4 cities was unstoppable in pr2.

As one of other posts suggested i would really love to see some kind of pirates career it seemed very interesting that you with your few ships against the whole world with your hideout and maybe some investors Tongue



maybe there could be implemented also cities that cannot be accessed by sea, they could be really hard to capture but they would hold very large treasure with in.



but as laoha says the most important thing is customization, otherways i just got 15 million of gold or money or whatever and no way to spend it, i it just kept incrasing, ( the amount of money) even thought i was at war with 3 other countries....
And well i enjoyed the battles a whole lot but later i didnt even buy cannons only boarding, and something should be done with duels, maybe even replaced with some real time fight, but they got really repetitive, 2 weeks ago they made me very very sleepy, i could win them not even watching at screen directly , was watching tv and just won Tongue

But yes i think pr2 was really great but what it lacked was some independence very late in game, or just pirates career... well i just hope it will be more stuffed with features than tropico 4 now it just turned it economy only, no use for army Tongue its all fun to get to the point when you have your own city but after that its like game over in pr2, i really hope you will rather take time and make a superb game than just rush it meet the date of realease, and even better yet, make it possible for players to make mods, with game like this there could be some awesome stuff done by community and modders, just as with Mount`n`Blade...

I apoligize i write so chaotic i just am super excited, ship building/buying mustnt be like in pr2 sometimes i played 2 hours straight and couldnt buy the ship i needed throughout 19 colonies..... you should be able to buy a rdy ship aswell as customize and build your own. And it would be awesome if in very late game you could invest like tons of money and when i say tons i mean like realy amount of money that takes some trading or epic pillaging to save, and research ironclads, or way better cannons or muskets, etc, pr2 felt really great but as several peaople have already said its customization we want! Maybe even implement that you are one captain and you must find a wife and make children before you die so the dynasty continous like in The guilds 2 Tongue
Reply
#8
Agree with Thorin - naval battles should be more faithful to PR2 - shot spread - and can be cut short (run - away!).
Introduction of overland trade into the American Continent and across the Isthmus to the Pacific coast, to access some form of exotic goods – Silver? Spice? Silk?
“One Armed Pirate” must stay.


Reply
#9
I am still playing PR2. I can't get enough of it.. and right now I think Kalypso is probably my #1 game company with all those legends (this, airline tycoon and tropico). The only thing that made me unhappy is that after a point you could not buy more buildings and spread out and the difficulty kept going high to the point you had to stop going around and spreading your fortune on buildings just to make more. Port Royale was is and probably will be for me the closest thing to my all times favorite Cutthroats. Although truth being told I never played any Patrician before.
Reply
#10
if you like Trade, Building,... you should give Patrician 4 a try. Also you will get a hint, how PR3 will look like, because i guess GM will use the same graphic engine.
Lebe jeden Tag, als wäre es Dein Letzter! / Live each day as it would be your last!
[Image: http://imghost4you.com/images/46.png]
Reply
#11
Warehouse Screen Mockup

I love PR2. I reinstall it about every 24 months to retake the economy of the Caribbean. I have macros that I use to compensate for the limitations of the interface, though. Fixing those limitations would be a great help.

For the purposes of my responses, comments like "right now" or simply "now" refer to PR2. I have broken each suggestion into sections. "Suggestion" attempts to clearly explain what I suggest in as few words as possible. "Problem" details why this suggestion is needed. "Resolution" ties together how the Suggestion resolves the Problem.

Trade management:
1. Warehouse/Town templates
(Suggestion) For warehouses and towns, allow the option to create a named "Template" and save it and load it into other towns when making modifications. Also allow changes to the Template to be applied to all stops or warehouses that are using the template.

(Problem) Right now, when you set up a trade route with manual trading, there are many steps to set which goods are Captain Traded, Not Traded, and Manual Traded (which includes ordering goods). It can take upwards of 20 click and drag operations per stop to set up a simple manually traded trade route, or 300+ clicks in total. More complicated routes take more.

Modification is just as bad. For example: If you have 4 trade routes, one to cover each trade region and you are trading rum in an attempt to gain a monopoly, you may have a certain quantity of rum being dropped at each stop to keep prices generally suppressed. As your production increases, you should increase the amount dropped at each stop, and decrease the price demanded. This process requires modifying and subsiquently verifying 61 stops across 4 trade routes! If you are dropping these goods off in a warehouse, you must visit every city in the game and modify the prices in each individual warehouse. Whether as stops or warehouses, 60 towns must be modified to change the price of rum!

(Resolution) By allowing any given change to a warehouse to be saved to a template, you could have as many or as few standardized layouts as you need. For example, as a player you could create "Warehouse-Gov", "Warehouse-Col", "Stop-Gov" and "Stop-Col" for warehouses and trade stops. By applying a template to all of stops and warehouses, you can make sweeping changes to all of them by modifying a relatively small number of templates. For more fine grained control, you could make more templates using the finished goods or colonial goods production, for example.
Taking goods out of the template (ie, the template skips and does not affect that good) would allow for finer grained control, and could be implemented by a selection screen while saving the template, or a check box in the creation screen.

2. Global Price Changes
(Suggestion) Allow the quantity and prices of goods bought and sold to be changed globally for trade routes and globally for warehouses. This suggestion only makes sense in conjunction with the "Force Price/Quantity" suggestion.

(Problem) Changing prices of a good you are dealing widely should be done often to track the global value of the good. The pure click-count of the endevour makes it an onerous and life sucking proposition.

(Resolution) Have a place where the price or quantity of a good bought and sold can be set for either all warehouses or all trade stops. This should not impact places where the good is not being manually traded, such as trade routes with the good set to Captain Traded or Not Traded and warehouses not buying or selling the good. There should be an option to protect from this modification; I'm callig it "Force Price/Quantity". Resolving conflicts between this function and the Templates should be last in wins to allow for further refinement of the trade route and warehouse set up.

3. Force Price/Quantity
(Suggestion) Place an icon next to Qty and Price fields (perhaps and exclaimation mark) that toggles between an on state and greyed out. When on, global modifications do not impact this field.

(Problem) The implementation of Global Price Changes could cause your supply and demand to try and operate at the same price.

(Resolution) This feature allows you to protect one side or the other from changes to global pricing. As an alerntative or addition, you could have a toggle field for the good (bottom left of the good icon?) that toggles between [S]upply, [D]emand, and deactivated. By specifying which one is being modified when making global price modifications, more control could be achieved.

4. Limit Captain Purchase Quantity
(Suggestion) Limit the amount of a good the captain will take onboard

(Problem) Warehouses do not allow more then a certain amount of a good to be stored. If a captain is picking up goods on a trade route, but no one is buying them at the set price, he may also not be able to offload them in a warehouse if it is at it's quantity limit. He will continue buying these goods until his hold is full.

(Resolution) Quantity limits keep the captain from loading on more than he can sell/offload beyond a set limit.

5. Better Keyboard Support
(Suggestion) add more keyboard commands

(Problem) Too much moving between mouse and keyboard.

(Resolution) Here's a partial list of commands
-Goto city (key sequence brings up a text box for city name, uses suggestions to fill as the name is being typed, alternately pick from a list)
-Next town, jump preserves current screen such as "Next town-warehouse", "Next town-Master Builer", etc.
-Tab between fields in warehouse and trade menu screens
-Activate Selection Turn On currently highlighted Good or check existing box. Keeping this separate from Turn Off (as in Toggle Selection) is for add-on support
-Decative Selection (see Activate Selection)

6. Set Trade Route Timing
(Suggestion) Have an option to set the minimum time a trade route takes. Trade routes who get home early will repair then wait for the time to expire before setting out again. Also have a "wait until full" option for goods, set per stop.

(Problem) When gaining a monopoly, you don't want towns near your good source to be oversupplied while leaving good markets undersupplied further out (leaving them as good markets for other traders). Right now, trade routes are run back to back, creating this situation.

(Resolution) When you set a miminum time, you can configure multiple routes so that they each arrive at their stops in the same time frame. Every 45 days for example. This capability cascades into planning for resource production stockpiling. Also allowing a stop to be set for "Wait until full" ensures the captain load daily until he has enough to satisfy the needs of his route. This eliminates a lot of work when supply does not meet demand, but is ramping up. (fewer modifications to drop quantities as production increases). This would probably be most functional if implemented as FIFO for captains waiting on goods.

7. Unsuck attacking towns
(Suggestion) Do something with attacking towns other than making it a matter of a hundred passes by a cannon tower.

(Problem) There's a trick to attacking towns, to be sure, but after you get the hang of it it's just a matter of tolerating the process.

(Resolution) I wish I had a better suggestion here, but opposing a static (immobile) opponent and compensating by making it "challenging" by making you take the same approach a hundred times is not fun.

8. XML/INI import/export
(Suggestion) Save and load trade routes, templates, and anything else that's not a save game in an easily editable format. Include export of empire data, possibly as a CSV (not importable back into the game).

(Problem) If you're an advanced player, there may be a way you want to analyze your empire or set up your routes that's a real PITA the way the interface is set up. You may also want to create a different tool to do it (mod/tools support).

(Resolution) Putting these in an easily readable format allows the player to make changes however works best for them, and bring those changes back into the game. Maybe not much use for bucklers of swashes, but great if you're playing as an economy game. Enables the creation of user driven tools without opening the game up for direct modification.

9. Hire Pirates
(Game content - no problem solved) Hire your fellow rabble to do dirty work against your rivals. As you get more established, there might be more of this done to you. (Rabble fightin' The Establishment)

10. Bribe Govenors/Town Councils
(Game content - no problem solved) Enlist the establishment to do dirty work against your rivals. Before you get established, there might be more of this done to you. (The Establishment keeping the Rabble in Check)



First of probably many clarifications -
3.Force Price/Quantity - Apply templates should be immune to this field. If the select/deselect goods from template option is used, it could be used to set the Force field. (pun not intended, but lol anyway.)

6.Set Route Time - FIFO for captains means completely supply a good to the first captain in line before begin supplying the next captain in line.
Mockup of Select Goods affected by Template Save screen
Reply
#12
11. Modify Multiple Stops in Trade Route
(Suggestion) Allow multiple stops to be selected at once by checking which stops to modify and selecting a "Modify Multiple" option similar to a city.

(Problem) this is another one about how many clicks it takes to set up / modify a trade route.

(Resolution) This suggestion can be used with our without the template suggestion. By selecting all the stops you want to modify, you can simply set "sources" and "Destinations" in two steps, saving hundreds of clicks in route modification.

Mutliple modify for routes mock up
12. More Fully Developed Economic Competitors
(Game Content - no problem Solved) Flesh out competitors to a greater extent. Allow actions (see #9, #10) such as stealing, spying on their cash reserves, getting govt buddies to apply fines or impound ships, attack their fleet directly, etc.

Sort the competitors into ranks, and give benefits to each rank. Set players by rank, also, depending on what they are doing.

Rank - Local Trader - This is for players and competitors with one or less build permits (<1 = trader, not producer). Most competitors will be fixed at this rank. They have a "home" city, and benefits of rank only apply there. For their home city, Local Traders get a large bonus to reputation (See CHANGE IN REPUTATION) for having their buy and sell orders filled, and possibly get a 5% bonus to their buy/sell prices. Local govt may be less inclined to work against local traders (higher price). Assume local traders are at least a second cousin to everyone on the island. (ew)

Rank - National Trader - Players and competitors with more than one build permit, all in the same nation. Several traders will advance to this rank. They have a home nation. The get a medium bonus to reputation in their home nation. They do not get price consideration, but they can often buy earlier. Their high profile makes the govt very unlikely to mess with them (very high price). Somewhat of a target for pirates and privateers.

Rank - Caribbean Trader - Players and competitors with more than one build permit, in more than one nation. Very few traders will advance to this rank, and they will be the serious economic competition. No home nation. No bonus for reputation (what have you done for me lately). Govt very unlikely to mess with them (very high price or refuse) if local reputation high or may take it upon themselves to do messing (taxes/impound/confiscations) if current city reputation is low. Big target for pirates. No real bonuses, but access to the entire economy of the Caribbean should compensate for extra defenses needed for pirates and the need to grease government or maintain high city reps. Eliminates the ability to get a build permit and never contribute to the city again. If you can dominate the economy to the point that a competitor can't scrape the money together to jump to this level, you've won the economy side of the game and can start using your monopolistic powers for evil.

Spying - find out competitors money, fleets by name, fleet route, next planned expansion
Hire Pirates - steal money, attack fleets, attack buildings (maybe target higher competitor by hitting his lower suppliers), burn bonus buildings
Bribe Govt - Temp bonus to effective rep (lost with extra penalty if bribe elapses/not paid on time), impound competitor for x days, charge arbitrary fees, deny new buildings for x days, dispose of "contaminated" goods at dock

Also - Schools and hospitals may provide a non-eroding benefit to reputation. It's hard to be mad that Captain Hornswaggle hasn't dropped off any cocoa in a year when your kid was born at Hornswaggle General Hospital and went to school at Hornswaggle Primary School. Possibly allow Caribbean Traders to build benefit building to take the bonus for themselves. Burn down other trader's donated school could be possible to build your own, but the with possibility of being caught with HUGE penalties.

CHANGE IN REPUTATION:Now, reputation is a percentage scale that becomes more difficult to move up as more build permits are acquired. Change it to an open ended value that evaluates the last year or two of activity, and build permits require a certain level of reputation that continually goes up. Certain benefits are dependent on the current reputation, so it becomes incumbent on the player to maintain the ever-eroding score with valuable supply and support activity. For example, with multiple purchase orders in the same day (ie, warehouse, autopilot trade routes), the orders at the same price are filled in reputation order. If a load of a good comes in and the price drops to 110. A high rep trader has a buy order to pick up this good up to 135 and a lower rep trader has an order to buy at 150. The high rep trader will pick up to his quantity or up to a price of 135 before the other trader gets a crack at the goods.
Reply
#13
13. Auto Trade guns, cannon, sailors
(Suggestion) Allow military gear to be picked up on trade routes

(Problem) Stocking / restocking military gear is a pain, especially when really rolling against a nation

(Resolution) I'm not suggesting that military hardware become a particularly lucrative or even profitable good, but by allowing it to be picked up, a new fleet can be given a saved trade route and ignored for several minutes in order to stock up.

14. Home city and return home
(Suggestion) assign fleets a home city for use in a couple flavor functions

(Problem) Fleets will stop where they are when they get full.

(Resolution) By assigning fleets a home city, you can create an option to return home when they are full. If their home city is on their route, they should take whatever actions are assigned, then reevaluate the reason they are there. For example, if you have a fleet gathering wood and brick for a big build and dropping it in their home city, when they are full they would come home instead of stopping, attempt to drop their load in the warehouse, then evaluate if they are still full. If they are, they stay in their home city.

This opens some other color options. For example, you could track home long it's been since a fleet has been Home, and apply a modifier to moral that only going home will fix and only rum and money will patch in the meantime.

15. Moral changes
(Game content - no problem fixed) - auto recruit sailors and give a chance of them jumping ship per stop. Balancing this fluctuation is primarily driven by moral. Rum and money, as well as home visits, shore leave, and local events like plague (sign up) and gold rushes (leave to get rich) affect moral. You could have security (paid soldiers) that help make sure men don't jump, but ramping up security too much eliminates shore leave and lowers moral. A low enough moral leads to mutiny, Captain Bligh.
Reply
#14
Hi i created an account just to reply to this thread,

Firstly thank you so much for developing this game and continuing the series, I think this is a great decision on your behalf Smile And here are my suggestions.
  • More treasures
  • Your own city (Through missions / piracy etc.)
  • More ships! & Ship upgrades
  • Pub games possibly? Gambling
  • A few more commodities would be nice
  • Different ship design, The ability to have a mermaid on the front if i want one, I want to customize my fleet
  • Option to start as a pirate in a pirate town
  • Campaign to unlock things in sandbox mode (rewarded for playing campaign)
  • A bigger area possibly?
  • I will leave the rest up to the creativity of the Kalypso dev team! THANKS!!

P.S i love you
Reply
#15
I'm really looking forward to this one. I'd like:

- a lot of ship designs
- detailed ship models with customisable elements
- various difficulty settings for each campaign type
- lots of ship upgrades (some generic, some special) maybe an either/or decision in some cases
- long gameplay with many stages as my guy evolves from a nobody to a ruler of an empire. perhaps the ability to continue as my son and keep on building
- rpg elements, character traits
- easy to control but fun naval battles. I really liked the one in Sid Meier's Pirates!; it was really easy to control but showcased the strenghts and weaknesses of your ship.

more to come soon, can't wait to play this game Smile
Reply
#16
great ideas.... cant wait for this game Big Grin
Reply
#17
I never played PR. Can you board ennemy ships and actually fight captain and crew ? If not,it is my suggestion Big Grin
Reply
#18
Thanks for the feedback!
Already noted your suggestions Wink

Best Regards,
Daan
Reply
#19
@ Che:

In both PR-games (1 and 2) the crew fights the battle for you after the boarding.
However, occasionally you have to fight the captain of the boarded ship yourself, usually when you board the leading ship of a buccaneer convoy.

Sword fights also occasionally appear when you try to conquer a town (captain of the town guard) or when you destroy a pirate's nest (notorious pirate).

Don't expect RPG-style of fights though. It's just left clicking to attack and right clicking to defend at the right moment. And if you plan things well, you do a "special move" by double clicking when attacking.


Thorin Smile
Hack seinen Kopf ab. Ich brauche einen Aschenbecher!
Reply
#20
@Thorin Thanks. Maybe I will see you at multiplayer Big Grin Tongue
Reply
#21
although I guess PR3 won't be a trading game as much as P4, I would have a couple of suggestions regarding the trading system:

- dynamic demand: if the price of a certain ware goes down, the demand should increase (coz' it's cheaper), if goes up, then decrease a bit.
- players should be able to sell stuff in europe (just like the mediterranean in P4), but unlike in P4, Europe should buy almost unlimited amount of certain wares (which can't be produced in EU)
- cities should not be limited to produce only some kind of stuff. only in case of raw materials which are limited to certain climate, or mineral deposits.
Reply
#22
The ability to be able to have a pirate career with pirate towns and pirate ships

Expanding the map upwards to include New York (or at least until Ocracoke Island since this is where Blackbeard was killed)

Adding the United States as a playable nation

Adding slaves as a trading commodity (this was widespread at the time)

The ability to research upgrades to ships (men-of-wars were capable of holding more than 50 cannons)
Reply
#23
Hi!
Thanks for the Feedback! Some pretty good ideas!

@Tappy:
Regarding the United States: PR3 takes place before the U.S. were founded, so I guess it's not an option to add them Wink
Regarding "Slaves as a trading commodity": is surely very offensive for a lot of people, so that's defenetly not an option.

Best regards, Daan
Reply
#24
Someone could make a mod to add slaves but it certainly won't be in actual game,like Daan said. People buy games to have some fun,not get offended
Reply
#25
(07-11-2011, 01:44 PM)Daan Hugo Wrote: Hi!
Thanks for the Feedback! Some pretty good ideas!

@Tappy:
Regarding the United States: PR3 takes place before the U.S. were founded, so I guess it's not an option to add them Wink
Regarding "Slaves as a trading commodity": is surely very offensive for a lot of people, so that's defenetly not an option.

Best regards, Daan

Oops, forgot the U.S. was a little after that era. The thought of having slaves being offensive never occored to me, I was just thinking it would add a bit more realism. Guess I should have thought that one out a bit more.

Reply
#26
There were a lot of ideas on how to improve the game, but I just wanted to say that I hope you don't change the atmosphere in any way, still use the same colors as in Port Royale 2 and the same lovely melodies. I really hope the soundtrack is as good as it was before. Whoever made it (by they way, can you tell me?), they knew how to do their job.
In the rest, I'd wish a bigger map and more nations, but it seems that you've already decided to not change that. I didn't read all the suggestions, but if it hasn't been said yet, I would also like if there was a lot more feedback from the "population" of the game and generally the characters, more dialogues, more choices etc., more interaction and attention to every one of your action. I think everyone is very interested in reactions to his choices.
Generally any new possibilities and more stuff to do would be very nice, as long as it doesn't make the game too easy, don't make it easy please.

Sorry for the skepticism, but the game was so great it's hard to have good expectations, but I will defiantly check it ; P
Reply
#27
I would love option to feed all people to the sharks once you capture a town. Players should be able to see how many people they killed and post scores to online leaderboards

Also a torture room ship upgrade for captains of enemy ships.
Reply
#28
I thought about this a bit more, and let me explain what I wrote above a bit longer:
Currently the P4 is the best game in the trading/historic game category, and PR2 was the same in it's one as well but that does not mean that these are very good games just that the others are worse.
What I don't like in P4 is that when you are getting richer the game starts to be a calculating game. Once your share in the global trade becomes significant you have to calculate all the time that you have to produce enough wares but you also have to avoid overproduction - because basically you are supplying the whole Hanse. It was almost the same in the previous games as well. My problem is that this is not fun for me and for most of the players I guess - just for the fanatics. In a good game the amount of micromanagement required is not increasing but stable. Only the challenges are changing. And this kind of too much micromanagement and calculation comes ultimately from the falsely understood role of the Hanse in my opinion.
In the game the Hanse is a closed market where an extensive internal trade and production exists. But this was not the real role of Hanse but it was an alliance of cities which organized the trade in the baltic region to connect certain areas with the main trade routes in Europe: It connected the Baltic with Flanders which was at that time the economic and trading centre of the continent where most major trade routes met. It connected the mainland of the HRE through rivers and land trade routes.
And it connected the northeastern European periphery: Sveden, the eastern Baltic areas ruled by the Teutonic Order, Poland, Lithuania, the republic of Novgorod and some other russian states like Pskov. And the main point was to enable the exchange the different goods produced in different regions AND to enable to transport these outside this whole region in relatively large scale. The latter is almost completely missing from P4 (because the mediterranean only buys three kind of stuff and in very limited amount, and no other regions are connected) but this should have been the main goal in the game because that can be the only way to reflect the real role of the Hanse and to step further than the closed market in the game - which is the main reason for the somewhat annoying gaming experience for the not-so-fanatics.
The reason I wrote this is that I fear that you guys are planning the PR3 this way.
Obviously the Americas were in a bit different economic situation but basically it was even less a closed market compared to the hanse because it was much more dependant on Europe due to it's much lower population density. Since actually the PR games were also a kind of trading game - where naval warfare was more important than in the patrician games I think it is very important.

My other concern is about the production. The Hanse did NOT produced raw materials but they bought these from the countryside. The members of the alliance were important cities but still did not have the territory to produce the agricultural raw materials, and the mines rarely were on the coast. Therefore if the idea of making patrician 5 ever becomes a reality the economic system should be rethinked in my opinion closer to what I wrote above. What I'm saying is that the Hanse actually bought the raw materials from the countryside: furs from the northeast, hardwood from the eastern Baltic, also grain from the east (including Poland and perhaps Brandenburg), iron from Sweden, salted fish from Norway, wool from England, and so on, and either transported it to the regions where there was a demand, or processed it in their cities and transported that stuff further. So the point is that production in the cities should be limited to produce processed goods only.
In case of the Americas it's ironically different, because the cities there weren't large enough to produce significant amount of processed goods which had to be imported from Europe and the cities (towns) were mainly trading centres (and fortified places as well) where the raw materials of the plantations were brought and put to ships. So in case of the Americas production of raw materials should still exist in cities because these were real centres of large regions unlike in the Hanse.

What I wrote in my earlier post, that production should not be limited to a couple of wares is also important in my opinion. Processing goods is possible everywhere: climate does not limit for example iron smelting or weaving. The agricultural production has some limits but these are also not so strict like it was in PR2. The caribbean area has pretty much similar climate where the only difference is in the amount of rainfall and the height but that is not that significant to limit for example sugar production to just 5 cities. If you add north America and parts of South America as well, then there should be differences naturally - and this would add some variety to the possible goods.

And at last but not least please plan the goods what can be traded and produced a bit more carefully. In P4 there are lots of goods which are VERY unrealistic and some important ones are missing. For example trading building materials is senseless, it was simply not profitable, and every settlement could produce these. Wood was not traded as a heating or building material, just hardwood was traded from ship could be built (pine is for example not good for ship building, it needs oak). Brick was not traded at all because it is heavy and cheap. With the given technology at that age it was not possible to produce profit from it. Meat, beer also could not be traded because it was not possible to cool these. These go wrong in a day without cooling. Salted meat was traded, or livestock - the latter was easy because it could move on their own feet. I never heard about the importance of mead. But I missing wax, livestock, flax (was important raw material for clothing), copper, animal hides (not furs, but leather from processed cattle for example), silk as an import resource, and so on. Ah and whoever read this gets a virtual beer. I think I already wrote too much.
And in case of Americas and the previous Port Royale the goods should also be rethinked in my opinion. For example sugar should not be processed to rum because the sugar itself is an important resource, and rum is actually not that important, its just a side product. Trading of building material should not be too profitable just occasionally. Europe should produce a couple of stuff what (especially at the start) Americas don't - mostly processed stuff: clothing, tools, weapons, etc. And the main point of trading should be to trade between Europe and America not the internal trade at least if you would like to create a game which has something to do with the region's real history.
Reply
#29
(18-11-2011, 10:59 PM)zaphodddd Wrote: I thought about this a bit more, and let me explain what I wrote above a bit longer:
Currently the P4 is the best game in the trading/historic game category, and PR2 was the same in it's one as well but that does not mean that these are very good games just that the others are worse.
What I don't like in P4 is that when you are getting richer the game starts to be a calculating game. Once your share in the global trade becomes significant you have to calculate all the time that you have to produce enough wares but you also have to avoid overproduction - because basically you are supplying the whole Hanse. It was almost the same in the previous games as well. My problem is that this is not fun for me and for most of the players I guess - just for the fanatics. In a good game the amount of micromanagement required is not increasing but stable. Only the challenges are changing. And this kind of too much micromanagement and calculation comes ultimately from the falsely understood role of the Hanse in my opinion.
In the game the Hanse is a closed market where an extensive internal trade and production exists. But this was not the real role of Hanse but it was an alliance of cities which organized the trade in the baltic region to connect certain areas with the main trade routes in Europe: It connected the Baltic with Flanders which was at that time the economic and trading centre of the continent where most major trade routes met. It connected the mainland of the HRE through rivers and land trade routes.
And it connected the northeastern European periphery: Sveden, the eastern Baltic areas ruled by the Teutonic Order, Poland, Lithuania, the republic of Novgorod and some other russian states like Pskov. And the main point was to enable the exchange the different goods produced in different regions AND to enable to transport these outside this whole region in relatively large scale. The latter is almost completely missing from P4 (because the mediterranean only buys three kind of stuff and in very limited amount, and no other regions are connected) but this should have been the main goal in the game because that can be the only way to reflect the real role of the Hanse and to step further than the closed market in the game - which is the main reason for the somewhat annoying gaming experience for the not-so-fanatics.
The reason I wrote this is that I fear that you guys are planning the PR3 this way.
Obviously the Americas were in a bit different economic situation but basically it was even less a closed market compared to the hanse because it was much more dependant on Europe due to it's much lower population density. Since actually the PR games were also a kind of trading game - where naval warfare was more important than in the patrician games I think it is very important.

My other concern is about the production. The Hanse did NOT produced raw materials but they bought these from the countryside. The members of the alliance were important cities but still did not have the territory to produce the agricultural raw materials, and the mines rarely were on the coast. Therefore if the idea of making patrician 5 ever becomes a reality the economic system should be rethinked in my opinion closer to what I wrote above. What I'm saying is that the Hanse actually bought the raw materials from the countryside: furs from the northeast, hardwood from the eastern Baltic, also grain from the east (including Poland and perhaps Brandenburg), iron from Sweden, salted fish from Norway, wool from England, and so on, and either transported it to the regions where there was a demand, or processed it in their cities and transported that stuff further. So the point is that production in the cities should be limited to produce processed goods only.
In case of the Americas it's ironically different, because the cities there weren't large enough to produce significant amount of processed goods which had to be imported from Europe and the cities (towns) were mainly trading centres (and fortified places as well) where the raw materials of the plantations were brought and put to ships. So in case of the Americas production of raw materials should still exist in cities because these were real centres of large regions unlike in the Hanse.

What I wrote in my earlier post, that production should not be limited to a couple of wares is also important in my opinion. Processing goods is possible everywhere: climate does not limit for example iron smelting or weaving. The agricultural production has some limits but these are also not so strict like it was in PR2. The caribbean area has pretty much similar climate where the only difference is in the amount of rainfall and the height but that is not that significant to limit for example sugar production to just 5 cities. If you add north America and parts of South America as well, then there should be differences naturally - and this would add some variety to the possible goods.

And at last but not least please plan the goods what can be traded and produced a bit more carefully. In P4 there are lots of goods which are VERY unrealistic and some important ones are missing. For example trading building materials is senseless, it was simply not profitable, and every settlement could produce these. Wood was not traded as a heating or building material, just hardwood was traded from ship could be built (pine is for example not good for ship building, it needs oak). Brick was not traded at all because it is heavy and cheap. With the given technology at that age it was not possible to produce profit from it. Meat, beer also could not be traded because it was not possible to cool these. These go wrong in a day without cooling. Salted meat was traded, or livestock - the latter was easy because it could move on their own feet. I never heard about the importance of mead. But I missing wax, livestock, flax (was important raw material for clothing), copper, animal hides (not furs, but leather from processed cattle for example), silk as an import resource, and so on. Ah and whoever read this gets a virtual beer. I think I already wrote too much.
And in case of Americas and the previous Port Royale the goods should also be rethinked in my opinion. For example sugar should not be processed to rum because the sugar itself is an important resource, and rum is actually not that important, its just a side product. Trading of building material should not be too profitable just occasionally. Europe should produce a couple of stuff what (especially at the start) Americas don't - mostly processed stuff: clothing, tools, weapons, etc. And the main point of trading should be to trade between Europe and America not the internal trade at least if you would like to create a game which has something to do with the region's real history.

That`s kind of funny, well let me remind you of this its a GAME, ok i agree p4 wasn`t what i expected and if you ask me it sucked, but that`s not the point. Beer goes bad in a day or two ? hilarious.... beer can be saved pretty fresh if the keg in which it is made has been clean for a few months.. all mean to say its a game not a simulator and it is supposed to be fun not 1:1 ratio with reality.

Reply
#30
Yeah, talking about planning, I would appreciate if I it was easier to supply abosulutely ALL the towns with ALL they need(that was my plan in free-play). I played the game untill I became really, really rich and captured half of the map to a single country, but as I expanded, some goods became hard to find. I realized that I would need to plan everything from the moment I start the game, calculate how much goods certain nr. of people eat, how much I can make, make all the trade routes, number of ships, etc, etc. for like, what, 40 towns? That, is a lot of work, not fun. But again, the game may became too easy, so just have a think on this.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)