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Utter disgust
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Tropi'je Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Utter disgust
(05-10-2011 03:16 AM)phenoyz Wrote:  Tropi'je thanks for the advice:
quick question? if i buy a computer with 8GB of RAM already installed
is it possible to upgrade it to 16GB, buy taking out the 2 = 4GB already installed and buying 2= 8GB RAM? to make it 16GB RAM
thanks


depends.. I think ram is still on 2 sticks banks atleast my system is. it changes from time to time. So make sure you check what the system is.. a lotta times to save money and padd the price, they will use 4 sticks, basically using all your slots. making it so when you upgrade you loose half your ram before you upgrade.


Seriously, I would really consiter building one yourself. it really is quite easy these days. everything is plug and play and even drivers and bios are upgradeable over the internet. No more hard boots and flashing stuff. So really its just like plugging in wires and cabled. the hardest part is adding the motherboard stuff.. but you just have to be carefull. Push gentley, but other than that its really easy. (mother board connecters like power, light, and a few others is just a simple manual page to see where everything goes.

tons of how to books around, even PC gamer has a great step by step, with photos.. get parts from newegg.com, great return policy and all warrentied. If you want some help picking stuff im sure i can work something up for ya.. Maybe if i get board today ill price up something for the 400 dollar range, just for giggles to see what i can get.. Big Grin
05-10-2011 01:40 PM
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eirynfox Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Utter disgust
(01-10-2011 03:02 AM)phenoyz Wrote:  
(01-10-2011 02:35 AM)outspan81 Wrote:  Vacuum out all the cat hair balls from the CPU fan! That improved my T3 experience. Tongue

HAHAHA...I will try that!!!..vacuum all that hair BALLS..!!!Big Grin

[Image: hairballs1.png]
07-10-2011 04:04 AM
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LeaT Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Utter disgust
(01-10-2011 02:57 PM)Bushface Wrote:  My computer's spec :- i7-2600k quad core 3.4GHz, 8GB 1600MHz RAM, 1GB GTX560Ti, runs Windows 7 64 bit. That ought to run T4 quite easily, and when playing I run no other software beyond Norton 360. I have tried to play with Norton turned off, but bloody Steam will not allow me to play in offline mode although on checking it tells me that all is well to do so, and I will not connect to the Net without malware protection .
I have no such problems with Total War or Civilization nor with my DTP and office software. Just Tropico.
But I can't provide any saves. All traces of this disaster have been deleted from storage - game, saves, and some odd files left behind after uninstalling via Steam. There must, I feel, be some configurational quirk causing the problem, but if Kalypso and Haemimont can't offer any suggestions what can a poor victim do but abandon all hope ?
Bushface, there is a person who kindly created an offline Launcher for Tropico 4 without you having to restrict internet access to the game. I suggest you google for it, shouldn't be too hard to find. Not sure how it works with those who run over Steam, but it's worth a shot. Just remember to backup your launcher file first.


As for building your own system, after doing that myself recently even though my previous experience only extended to adding new RAM and changing CPU, I can add that it is really easy and worth it based on the money you save. It takes a bit more time investment from your side and some good screwdrivers, but it's not that bad.
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2011 04:05 PM by LeaT.)
07-10-2011 03:53 PM
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outspan81 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Utter disgust
(07-10-2011 04:04 AM)eirynfox Wrote:  
(01-10-2011 03:02 AM)phenoyz Wrote:  
(01-10-2011 02:35 AM)outspan81 Wrote:  Vacuum out all the cat hair balls from the CPU fan! That improved my T3 experience. Tongue

HAHAHA...I will try that!!!..vacuum all that hair BALLS..!!!Big Grin

[Image: hairballs1.png]

That's how I felt while vacuuming them out!
10-10-2011 01:59 AM
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Bushface Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Utter disgust
Timo - quite right to close my "new" thread, which was opened in excess haste.
Anyway, I had to do a clean reinstall of Windows 7 after a terrible crash. Then I downloaded T4 again from Steam. During the tutorial it locked up at the "improving relations" panel, so I couldn't even finish the tutorial. Even ctrl+alt+del didn't work: the screen flickered two or three times between the game and the "task manager" panel but then reverted to the locked game screen, so I had to switch off.
But, being a glutton for punishment, yesterday I tried again. Got the same lockup at the same point, but quite by accident hit the Esc key and that cleared the lockup. So now I have duly finished the tutorial and also the first campaign mission.
However, it would be nice to be told what the final mission objective is, at the outset not just before the notification appears. By that time it is too late to do things better without re-starting, or at least reloading from a few years earlier.
10-10-2011 07:09 PM
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Timo Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Utter disgust
Can you post a screenshot of the locked up panel? I'm beginning to suspect that there's something wrong with your setup. What is the "improving relations" panel and what exactly happens when it locks up?

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10-10-2011 10:05 PM
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Tropi'je Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Utter disgust
"clean install of win7, Does that mean you did a full format and start from scratch? Or just reinstall windows? If you just did the later, there is a good chance it did not fix the issue. It definatly sounds like a unique issue to your system.. I have had almost zero issues with t4 so far and my system isnt really anything special at all. Just an up to date DX9 and vista..


*edit, it also has me wondering, are you playing on a laptop?
(This post was last modified: 11-10-2011 10:57 PM by Tropi'je.)
11-10-2011 12:17 AM
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Bushface Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Utter disgust
@Timo - it's one of the panels that pops up in the tutorial. As soon as it appeared, the screen locked up. No, I can't provide a screenshot, because when the game locks up the keyboard doesn't respond (except for Ctrl+Alt+Del, and not always to that, and in that one case to the Esc key) and the mouse pointer will move but clicking does nothing.
@Tropi'je - yes, reformat both C and D drives, since both had had files shuffled. Not a laptop, but a desktop with i7-2600k quad 3.4GHz, 8GB 1600MHz RAM, and 1GB GTX560ti. And I haven't yet reloaded all my other software such as my DTP stuff, because I didn't fancy spending several very dull hours at one session.
12-10-2011 04:36 PM
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Tropi'je Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Utter disgust
hmmm... Ok.. the only thing i can think of now.. what about your mother board? what kind is it? Can you update the bios and MB drivers?

who is the manufacturer of all your parts?

but your also saying that every other game works flawlessly? all other apps?

i've had issues like this in the past, and i thought it was the game i was playing,.. But infact it was bad ram.. and an over taxed system. What you listed doesnt sound like it would be taxed, but who knows, it could be the way the game uses things and its just not showing up during other games.

have you tried a ram test? Or removing some ram, so you only have one stick? or 2? if its a bank, its a pain, but that could be the issue as well.

how long hav eyou had this computer? I know computer issues can suck, but work through it.. in the end you will be better off.. vrs having issues for the next few years.
12-10-2011 09:28 PM
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Swixel Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Utter disgust
(12-10-2011 04:36 PM)Bushface Wrote:  a desktop with i7-2600k quad 3.4GHz, 8GB 1600MHz RAM, and 1GB GTX560ti

Can you please launch Tropico 4 and then shut it back down, then paste the latest log (from %APPDATA%\Tropico 4) here in [code] tags?

There's a small chance something is happening that shouldn't be, and the CPU model is what makes me think it.
12-10-2011 10:30 PM
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Bushface Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Utter disgust
Loaded game: exited at once, without loading a mission. Log file follows.
Code:
*** executable info
Name:              d:\program files (x86)\steam\steamapps\common\tropico 4\Tropico4.exe
Timestamp:         4e6a28d0
Date:              Fri Sep 09 15:55:12 201


*** hardware info
CPU               Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600K CPU @ 3.40GHz
CPU count         8
Phys. Memory       0 MBytes
Memory In Use      18%
Disk Free          2602 MBytes


*** OS info
Windows 7 or later
Version            6.1.7601 Service Pack 1
MyDocs folder:     C:\Users\ROY\Documents
AppData folder:    C:\Users\ROY\AppData\Roaming


*** Debug::Init()
Time               1776554 milliseconds


Steam initialized for user 'rff1'


*** Build version: 1.03.301


[Debug Error] Can't create path: d:/program files (x86)/steam/steamapps/common/tropico 4/dlc
ERROR: Failed to mount "d:/program files (x86)/steam/steamapps/common/tropico 4/dlc" as "AppData/dlc"
Creating a DirectX interface...

*** RenderDevice::Init: started...

    1680 x 1050, 0 Hz, vsync: OFF, pure device: ON
    video hardware: 10de,1200 (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 Ti)
    approx video memory: 1024MB
    approx texture memory: 4052MB
    depth format: D3DFMT_INTZ

*** RenderDevice::Init: done.

ERROR: can not create shader pack file: Path Not Found
[Console Error] signin:  Tracking signin changes:  no
[Console Error] signin:  false false
DLC enum: Waiting wakeup

PlayLogo, MainMenuWizard
signin:  PushSigninPredicate
signin:  Tracking signin changes:  yes
signin:  .../Tropico4/Tools/Build/__game/HGE/xbox/xboxSignin.lua(142) .../Tropico4/Tools/Build/__game/HGE/xbox/xboxSignin.lua(142)
All DLCs mounted, loading Lua
  ...loaded
Available DLCs: {  = true, Construction = false, Military = false, Plantation = false, Steam = true, false = true }
signin:  PopSigninPredicate
signin:  Tracking signin changes:  no
signin:  false false
signin:  signin 0
request DLC enumeration on signin
signin:  Check predicate
Creating question: Do you really want to exit the game? Exit Keep playing
Waiting question result: Do you really want to exit the game? ok EXIT
[AsyncReader destructor]
[AsyncReader destructor] - waiting for the reader thread to finish
Total/current/peak reads: 6 / 1 / 6
Hook 'Shader :: CompileEffect' not found!
[AsyncReader destructor]
[AsyncReader destructor] - waiting for the reader thread to finish
Total/current/peak reads: 6 / 1 / 6


*** Debug::Done()
Time (ms)    4293218854
15-10-2011 01:29 AM
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Swixel Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Utter disgust
Thanks. It's not the CPU doing silly things trying to load an onboard rendering in parallel then Wink I've only seen that happen once (on an entirely different engine), but I wanted to see if maybe that was it.

Have you tried running it after removing 360 yet?
15-10-2011 01:44 AM
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Bushface Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Utter disgust
I don't want to remove N360, but I have disabled it and set Steam to play offline and turned off my router - I will not connect to the Net without protection.
Playing offline, campaign mission "Cara Libro" (which my dictonary tells me means "face book" - clever !), I got as far as Jan 72, at which point there was an autosave. I saved at July 73, played on to mid 1974, at which point there was an eruption and the game locked up as has happened to me so infuriatingly often. Task Manager reported "not responding", therefore "end task". Restarted: my save at July 1973 would not load, but the autosave of Jan 72 would, and did. Deleted the unusable Jul 73 save, re-ran from Jan 72 to Dec 72 and saved: that save also would not load, and has been deleted. It appears that unless I go for a fast finish, with a score lower than I want, I cannot complete this mission.
Could there possibly be a predetermined date by which the mission must be completed? If so, why isn't this announced in advance, or a "You Lose" message given?

PS - of course N360 is now re-enabled and my router is on.
(This post was last modified: 16-10-2011 12:07 AM by Bushface.)
16-10-2011 12:05 AM
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Swixel Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Utter disgust
From experience (and debugging it), disabling Norton 360 doesn't actually disable parts of it.

Anyway, the next time it locks up, could you please keep the save and send it to Kalypso so they can see if they can find something wrong with it? If something is corrupting the save it's just as interesting as random crashes.
16-10-2011 12:12 AM
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driscojs Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Utter disgust
I can attest to Norton 360's general habit of getting in the way of other programs firsthand. It's one of their more intrusive products, and while it works well under general conditions, I have always swapped it out for clients and moved them to another product, even another Symantec product.

J
16-10-2011 06:01 AM
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Bushface Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Utter disgust
@Swixel - I have sent past saves to Kalypso, who found nothing wrong. But it may be worth another try: they've been very patient with me.

@driscojs - my lockup problems occur only with Tropico, and all my other games and apps work as they should. But to set up Steam to run offline, turn off my router, uninstall N360, play Tropico for a while, then turn the router back on and reinstall N360, and finally be able to do something else would be an unpleasantly tedious process, and possibly one that will not solve the problem.
What really peeves me is that these lockups occur late in the mission, after I've spent hours building up a solid base from which a win with a good score is certain (if only I could complete the mission). Ah, if only . . .
16-10-2011 03:21 PM
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driscojs Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Utter disgust
@Bushface
N360 is just a flaky product. I've run into many times with similar results; it interferes with just one or two programs, seemingly at random. It's a little over zealous in it's protection of the system. I'd strongly recommend a different product, but that's another issue. I'm not trying to suggest it's even the specific issue you're up against. If it will let you, you might trying excluding specific directories from N360's scan/real-time.

J
17-10-2011 03:04 AM
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rj66 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Utter disgust
cant a batch file just stop&start processes like N360 and disable/enable Network connection automatically.
Swixel is a smart person so maybe he can help automate it if it is just too much effort/
(This post was last modified: 17-10-2011 05:22 AM by rj66.)
17-10-2011 05:12 AM
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Swixel Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Utter disgust
While the praise is appreciated, I'd need N360 installed to do that, and I value my computer too much to do that to myself Wink
17-10-2011 05:59 AM
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rj66 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Utter disgust
With only about 40~50 processes per average Win7 install It should not be that hard to search Bushfaces computer files to track down everything from N360. Nost antivirus/antispyware installs have about 2~4 processes started including updater service. A screenchot of the task manager full processes might help but its a simple batch file so you could let Bushface do all the tracking down. You would only need provide whar magic guru words, annd order, to put in the batch file to stop and start the processes/netork connection.

I did a little searching and found something of an example
net stop “windows update”

which is supose to stop the Win7 update service temperarily
I imagine that
net start “windows update”
would restart the service

Those magic guru words sound somwhat familiar since my older sister, the smart one in the family, made the BAT files to stop and start processes for me when I was using XP.
(This post was last modified: 17-10-2011 12:02 PM by rj66.)
17-10-2011 11:33 AM
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Bushface Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Utter disgust
The only process for which Task Manager shows Symantec under "description" is ccSvcHst.exe, which exists in two forms: one with System as user (6616 K) and one with Roy (which is me) as user (4600k).
As for creating a BAT file, I haven't done that since the dear departed days of DOS and haven't a clue how or where to do such a thing in Windows 7.
I may say that I have been in contact with Symantec, who have said categorically that Norton 360 does not in any way ever conflict with games. And who am I to dispute that ?
17-10-2011 05:31 PM
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Swixel Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Utter disgust
(17-10-2011 05:31 PM)Bushface Wrote:  I may say that I have been in contact with Symantec, who have said categorically that Norton 360 does not in any way ever conflict with games. And who am I to dispute that ?

In which case it's not scanning the games, or otherwise scanning their data files, and its value for protecting you from custom user content in the games is nil. Otherwise they're saying that it shouldn't, not that it doesn't.

It's not processes, but services you need to look at to stop things Smile
17-10-2011 09:44 PM
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Bushface Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Utter disgust
How can I tell what services are relevant, and could be stopped safely while Tropicising ?
21-10-2011 04:58 AM
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Swixel Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Utter disgust
You find out what they are and then work out if they are. It's a case-by-case thing.

I've got a minimal setup on one machine and it still runs a good 30 services...
21-10-2011 05:45 AM
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MinnesotaNice Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Utter disgust
My game runs on maxed out settings perfectly. Great game.
21-10-2011 06:54 AM
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ezwip Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Utter disgust
Hey hey hey. Don't be bashing Norton's. It's a great product that has made me a lot of money over the years.

Not that I'd ever run it on one of my own systems. Wink
21-10-2011 07:43 AM
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vladesch Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Utter disgust
ctrl-alt-del
start task manager
Click on "performance"
Check your physical memory.

1GB may not be enough if you have a lot of stuff running in background.
I'd be willing to bet money if you upgraded your ram your problems would go away.

As an interim solution, download "process explorer". Its a free download from microsoft. This will show your running processes and you can kill off the ones using a lot of memory (private bytes) that you don't need (right click->kill process).
Web browsers, antivirus's would be good to get rid of.

Also run tropico4 directly from windows, don't use steam as that uses a BIG chunk of memory. (steam\steamapps\common\tropico 4\tropico4.exe)
(This post was last modified: 23-10-2011 10:55 AM by vladesch.)
23-10-2011 10:43 AM
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Swixel Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Utter disgust
Bushface, as I just posted in the bugs thread, you might want to check your BIOS for an option to disable the onboard GPU. It's an Intel GPU, which is low powered, and may, if you're unlucky, be messing up Tropico via Direct X (I doubt the context could/should leak, but I'm seeing a 1 pixel bleed onto my second monitor since ~February, and it may be doing something seriously strange).

EDIT: To clarify, anything with a Direct X context that's full screen is bleeding 1px to the right. It's not just T3 and T4, but Deus Ex Human Revolution and my own test code have this issue.
(This post was last modified: 23-10-2011 01:58 PM by Swixel.)
23-10-2011 01:57 PM
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DaKhalli Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Utter disgust
Well if you did a clean install of windows 7, you had your system operating without N360 at a certain point.


What i would suggest is
Download the offline installation of the servicepack. (save to your D drive) (http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=199583)
Download Microsoft Security Essentials http://www.microsoft.com/security/pc-security/mse.aspx
It's a freeware antivirus solution from microsoft for all legal windows owners.

take your pc offline, reinstall windows clean
Install the servicepack
Install Microsoft security essentials
DON'T INSTALL N360
Install tropico and play it.

If it play and plays and plays without problem we just found out N360 is the problem, and you might want to look for another protection tool (or just keep the microsoft security essentials, ive been using it for 3 years now, not a single infection yet).

If it still crashes, it is hardware related, my best guess would be 1 of your RAM modules is broken, take one out, see if the game keeps running, if crashed take out the other one and put the one you took out before back in. try to play again. If it also crashes, it probably isn;t your RAM.
(This post was last modified: 23-10-2011 10:03 PM by DaKhalli.)
23-10-2011 09:59 PM
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Sharpe Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Utter disgust
There is a removal tool for N360 (check their site/Google) - I removed it from my system and replaced with AVG. This fixed all my issues.
26-10-2011 08:41 AM
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