I wish Tropico 4 would've been the expansion to Tropico 3, and that this would be Tropico 4.

It would also be fitting for there to be rail roads on the island... wasn't it in Tropico 1 where characters would think "the island needs a good rail simulation." ? Although the makers of tropico then had made a railroad tycoon.

Well, I'm going to suggest things easy to program (some are quasi-bugs to fix):
-Special forces sneaking onto the island to support the rebels (represented by foreign nationality (of a major power) rebels suddenly appearing), or former emigrants might attempt to storm the island. And if rebel forces are supported by a foreign power, they could be encouraged to attack certain buildings (destroy the nuclear program). Their rebel skill rating and weapons would also improve if improved by a foreign power.
-Be able to pay people $100 per month.
-A menu window which shows all your buildings and occupation types, allowing you to have centralized access to fees and payments, and how many buildings you have.
-Old widows don't remarry. Really. It gets kind of weird when 70 year olds marry 20 year olds, and two 40 year olds have a 40 year old child.
-I think when same sex marriage is enacted, 50% of the population marries the opposite sex. In RL, numbers of LGBT rarely exceed 20% in large populations.
-Have rebels wait until they are at least 25% of the military size before attacking. 3 rebels against an army of 25. Who will win I wonder?
--In a battle, if 25% or more of a group retreat or are killed, the group should admit defeat.
-Show a gender symbol under a person's stats.
-People cannot be both capitalist and communist faction members. Or at least put them in an asylum building.
-Give secret police ministers different icons. It's disorienting when there is a woman with a policeman's model.
-Allow generals to eliminate people.
-Add a cheat code to spawn rebels. Self-imposed difficulty.

Slightly less easy to program/change/do:
-Pre-military modernization soldiers would be equipped with what appears to be bolt-action/WWII rifles.
--Only if your nation has good relations with the US after 1965 would your soldiers run around with M16s.
-Allow both men and women to be bureaucrats.
-Require buildings to have different jobs (buildings with three or more employees to have a male college educated manager, the palace to have bureaucrats). Managers obviously improve productivity, and palace bureaucrats collect taxes.
--Equal opportunity edict allows women to manage buildings as well.
--Guard stations perform better with a high school educated sergeant. Or the soldiers of a guard station train faster with a sergeant.
---Generals are needed to manage sergeants.
-Use the voice actor from the First Tropico as the announcer, he sounds more hispanic
-Instead of blowing up buildings, rebels could attempt to rob them instead. Particularly banks. Would allow more rebels to live, and would make it harder to defend. If the rebels succeed, their weapons are improved somehow.
-Hire foreign mercenaries, who are also more likely to stage a coup, but also come with their own military camp.
--Remove the ability to hire foreign trained soldiers.
-For higher political difficulty levels, if a building maintains a profit for over a decade, workers will want wages that will gradually approach 25% of the building's profits per worker, or they will organize strikes or become communists.
-The ability to end strikes by firing/firing upon strikers.
-Allow criminals to resist arrest. Their models include pistols. Let them use them.
-Add an ethics stat. People with high ethics cannot commit crimes for el presidente (send money to a swiss bank account), nor eliminate non-criminal citizens. Citizens with high ethics stats don't become criminals or secret police either. Soldiers mutiny/join the rebels if told to do something inethical. Other citizens will just simply quit their job.
--Tropicans with low ethics might steal on the job.
--Ethics screening edict, allows for both ways; screen for/against ethics. Requires a college.
--Grade schools and high schools could be set to citizenship classes to improve graduate ethics.
--Tropicans inherit the ethics of their parents, that is if they aren't orphans.
-If you shoot both of a child's biological parents, that child should grow up with an unending hate of El Presidente.
-If a faction is not heard, and El Presidente is unlikely to be overthrown through elections/coup/rebellion, the faction should do something. Like secretly support rebels or encourage mass protests.
-Not all rebels have guns. Kind of realistic, and requires faction/foreign power support to arm rebels.
--Also allows more people to join the rebels without making the game too difficult.
-I want to commence purges! I want to be able to order the arrest and/or elimination of say 10%, 20% or 33% of a faction. Twice that number will decide to either leave the faction or join the rebels. The number to be arrested will be decided by the player, but will depend on free prison cells. Who will be arrested or killed would be whoever is the most dedicated faction supporters, and the game automatically will work down the list under the number requested to be arrested/eliminated have been ordered to be so. Oh also, people don't join purged factions for 5 years.
--Prisons set to reeduction should remove the faction support of the prisoners, and replace them with loyalist and/or nationalist faction support.
--Some tropicans ought to be apolitical.
-The ability to designate housing as retirement homes.
-Not all citizens vote. If they are only mildly unhappy and it looks like el presidente may not win, they may not vote. If they are only mildly happy, and it looks like el presidente may win, they may not vote.
-Marketplaces requires only someone with a minimum of grade school education.
-Chemical factories produce luxury goods.

Really hard to do:
-Robust fiscal/monetary system, local and foreign investors propose construction projects (it doesn't take el presidente to build a pub or a market), el presidente/player approves building permits, and the treasury receives money from import and/or export tariffs, business taxes, and income taxes. Foreign-owned buildings could receive different taxes. Private buildings could be nationalized (detrimental to future investments and foreign relations). Service buildings are far more effective when privately owned, although are more likely to charge higher fees or in the case of media, say things against el presidente. Private buildings should be able to set their own wages, and private owners could petition el presidente to crush those pesky unionists.
--People save for retirement. I find it hard to believe well paid (for a tropican) doctors haven't saved enough to live in a tenement.
---People save for investment. Or let them be able to take out loans.
----If their business can't keep up loan payments, then seize the property. This would tick off the business owner(s), though.
---Private construction offices ought to exist, but won't work for el presidente unless contracted.
-Have soldiers use cover when fighting. Or at least fire from the prone or crouching position.
-Allow for a criminal economy. Criminals would sell black market food or goods if the needs of average citizens weren't met.
-Ever play Floor 13? This idea is based upon that game. Secret Police investigate tropicans. Tropicans have a number of friends they never hang out with (too complex to simulate, and would take too much game time away from them working), that they make in school, or at work. Their friends will support them if they join a rebellion, and their friends would be upset if you shot their friends. Some of their friends/associates could in fact be criminal partners or plotting conspiracies. Prevent coups through investigation!

Although I really suspect if any of my ideas will be implemented, it will be in Tropico 5 :/

Why not that workless people get a bit money english word i think = unemployment benefits?

Like a small 2 up to 5 dollars? so that basic housing is available for them and so get rid of shacks?
Cuz social security edict is only for retirees?

(16-02-2012 04:50 PM)sk4tzmen Wrote:  Cuz social security edict is only for retirees?

Social security is only for retirees and students.

I agree that it should also cover the unemployed.

You mean welfare? In my games, unskilled workers always are paid less then 2/3 of the average wage.

So... why would anyone work?

Although since the unemployed look like bums, I don't know why they don't panhandle.

And in my games, I build one tenement (set to roach patrol) or a few bunkhouses, set them to 0 rent. I call those buildings, the projects.

(27-02-2012 03:30 AM)rizt Wrote:  You mean welfare? In my games, unskilled workers always are paid less then 2/3 of the average wage.

So... why would anyone work?

I think a reasonable implementation would be "Unemployed Tropicans are given rent-free rooms in tenements" or setting welfare to 2/3 the LOWEST wage on the island. (With a lower limit of $1, perhaps.)

It March! Where is Modern Times? You Promised!

I've been shlepping around Dungeons for a while waiting for MT, and I'm starting to loose my tan. I only have so much vitamin D in reserve without the sun, so c'mon and hurry up.

(27-02-2012 10:56 PM)SapphireBullets Wrote:  

(27-02-2012 03:30 AM)rizt Wrote:  You mean welfare? In my games, unskilled workers always are paid less then 2/3 of the average wage.

So... why would anyone work?

I think a reasonable implementation would be "Unemployed Tropicans are given rent-free rooms in tenements" or setting welfare to 2/3 the LOWEST wage on the island. (With a lower limit of $1, perhaps.)

You know wages are really cheap. You actually could use construction offices as make-work offices, even if you don't have to build anything.

Besides, if you want tenements to only accept the unemployed, set them to roach patrol and set rent to zero. The housing quality would be too low for anyone with a job.


In real life wages make up at least 50% of production costs. In Tropico, they make up maybe 10%. In RL at least 25% of a worker's hours are spent working. In Tropico, it's 10%, if that.


In some ways, the shift from banana republic simulator to city-builder has made the game too easy. I can't remember the last time I was overthrown.

All of this stuff should have been in the original expan, er I mean game.

Everything that will ever come out should have been in an original game already. But following that logic, you would never see a "completed" game, just every single one in a perpetual state of development since there are always things you can add.

Quote:Everything that will ever come out should have been in an original game already. But following that logic, you would never see a "completed" game, just every single one in a perpetual state of development since there are always things you can add.

I surmise a major consumer concern that future expansions/games are going to be sold without enough features to justify their releases. While no one can exactly know how much hard work is put into the game (I for one, could not program a game like Tropico), it is a free market afterall. The point of expansions generally is in many ways to subsidize game development, and one can wonder how much development is being paid for.

To be fair, I have to say that the major benefit of Tropico 4 is the ability to buy DLC for $5 which includes articles of clothing, a building or two, and few other features. I haven't taken advantage of this new feature of Tropico 4 though. There are other features that Tropico 4 adds, such as three more world powers whose main interaction are "mini-missions" and conducting embargos while the cold war continues indefinitely. Although at least with imports you can run a fully industrial economy.

Edit: I can only wait to see how many new features the new expansion adds.

(05-03-2012 09:49 AM)Timo Wrote:  Everything that will ever come out should have been in an original game already. But following that logic, you would never see a "completed" game, just every single one in a perpetual state of development since there are always things you can add.

Timo..

Can't you just hop in the kaylpso time machine, go ahead 3 years, take the latest build, and bring it back to us.. I mean come on, this whole having to wait for you to develope things is sooo last century.

Every time you get a sequel in a series some people say they missed some element or other of the old game. I guess this is just the opposite case where people feel the game is a bit too similar.

To compare to Dungeons and Dragons, Tropico 4 may really have been more like Tropico 3.5 but I liked Tropico 3 enough that more of the same was enough to justify a purchase while it was on sale and I'd point new players to 4 as their first port of call.

Looking forward to Modern Times. Might feel a little more thrilled if there was a neato Steam sale on right at the start but I'll be getting it either way.

(05-03-2012 09:49 AM)Timo Wrote:  Everything that will ever come out should have been in an original game already. But following that logic, you would never see a "completed" game, just every single one in a perpetual state of development since there are always things you can add.

Except that 4 by it self is more of an expansion than a stand alone game. You guys are turning into...EA.

(06-03-2012 03:51 AM)Agent Orange Wrote:  You guys are turning into...EA.

Which apparently is a sucessfull business model.

As consumers, we can vote with our dollars. In other words, if enough people felt strongly about EA's practices and stopped buying their products, they would either change their methods, or go out of business.

(06-03-2012 01:58 PM)beancounter Wrote:  

(06-03-2012 03:51 AM)Agent Orange Wrote:  You guys are turning into...EA.

Which apparently is a sucessfull business model.

As consumers, we can vote with our dollars. In other words, if enough people felt strongly about EA's practices and stopped buying their products, they would either change their methods, or go out of business.

Well EA rushes games and screw up good franchises (BF, C&C, Simcity and etc.) for money.
i mean just look at bf3!they rushed the game in order compete with Cod...
Yes, this attacred more casual gamers and COD kids to BF3 but...
BF franchise were ruined and most hard core BF fans not playing at all!
EA doesnt care about community (which tropico devs still care about community)
Lets hope tropico devs dont fall same mistake that EA did.

Actually, I think our dollars did speak.

Remember that Tropico 4 launched at $34.99 (with preorder, so that's probably what you paid if you bought it at release) and not $59.99. So it was already priced like an expansion, albeit a big one (it is a big one). If you didn't buy right at release, you probably paid the $29.99 it went on sale for a few weeks later. At pretty much no point since (very) shortly after it came out has this game featured a universal $39.99 pricetag--at least one site ALWAYS has it on sale under $30 and most of the time you can find it under $20. Often, less: I personally bought my copy for under $5 on Amazon game downloads.

It's not like the game-download sites bought a bunch of boxed copies that they need to move so they're cutting the price; Kalypso is definitely working with them on the sales. Seriously, this game has constantly been on sale since very shortly after it was released, and the preorder was discounted too. Kalypso aren't stupid (they're actually quite smart), they're adapting to demand conditions and pricing accordingly. So for all intents and purposes, despite its name, the game is behaving in the market like a standalone expansion. Kudos to them for understanding that--and continuing to make content (a la MT) despite not being able to move sufficient quantities of T4 at the original price.

Also releasing it as an actual expansion would have been idiotic, considering there already was AP, T3 was stale on the market 'cause it had been out forever, and they would have lost all those potential buyers that didn't have T3, plus XBoX gamers.

No, if Kalypso were EA, they would be releasing a full-priced Tropico every year with marginal or no improvements while simultaneously disabling everything except Sandbox Mode on the previous iteration. There would be no way to share user-made challenges or islands, and Penultimo would remind you to buy DLC every few years. And El Presidente's favorite toucan would go missing, and clicking on the scenario to get him back would result in an in-game DLC-transaction panel launching.

(06-03-2012 03:51 AM)Agent Orange Wrote:  Except that 4 by it self is more of an expansion than a stand alone game. You guys are turning into...EA.

Get a Free copy of Tropico "the Empire editon" Which includes all DLC and expansions from the previous 1-6! Penulitmo says you get it all with your pre-order of tropico 7! It's coming to a store near year in 2018...

(06-03-2012 06:06 PM)Tropije Wrote:  Get a Free copy of Tropico "the Empire editon" Which includes all DLC and expansions from the previous 1-6! Penulitmo says you get it all with your pre-order of tropico 7! It's coming to a store near year in 2018...

I really hope we don't have to wait until 2018 for T7..

(06-03-2012 06:14 PM)beancounter Wrote:  I really hope we don't have to wait until 2018 for T7..

Personally i'm waiting for 2020 and Tropico 8 "Serenity" It takes place on a space station..

But come on kaylpso.. why on earth do we have to wait this long??? Nothing says modern times more than a space station...

maybe legends of pegasus will hold me till then

(06-03-2012 01:58 PM)beancounter Wrote:  

(06-03-2012 03:51 AM)Agent Orange Wrote:  You guys are turning into...EA.

Which apparently is a sucessfull business model.

As consumers, we can vote with our dollars. In other words, if enough people felt strongly about EA's practices and stopped buying their products, they would either change their methods, or go out of business.

No, its a terrible business model that focuses on greed rather than making good games that will sell enough on their own. People still by their crap because of their monopoly over certain franchises, and the fact that people in mass are stupid sheep.

(11-03-2012 11:47 PM)Agent Orange Wrote:  

(06-03-2012 01:58 PM)beancounter Wrote:  

(06-03-2012 03:51 AM)Agent Orange Wrote:  You guys are turning into...EA.

Which apparently is a sucessfull business model.

As consumers, we can vote with our dollars. In other words, if enough people felt strongly about EA's practices and stopped buying their products, they would either change their methods, or go out of business.

No, its a terrible business model that focuses on greed rather than making good games that will sell enough on their own. People still by their crap because of their monopoly over certain franchises, and the fact that people in mass are stupid sheep.

Agreed, and not including the current DLC in the expansion is just further proving this. It is quite pathetic.

Is it true what I saw on a preview video show that some of these 30 new buildings are replacements for existing buildings and that once we build the new buildings we can't build the old style buildings?

Thus, not really 30 "new" buildings, but rather some are replacments of existing buildings.

That is correct. We still consider them new because not only do they look drastically different, but they also have entirely different features/work modes/upgrades. Once a specific building has been replaced, it can not be converted back. At certain points in time, old buildings become entirely obsolete and unavailable, adding a new layer of strategic island planning.

Okay, thank you for the explanation.

Whatever you do, do not pre-order off steam!

A few of us that already have cannot now play the original game.

You now get a silly error message that states the game is not available until the predesignated date. Bugger!

I wonder will the military be modernized at all???

So, anything new about Tropico 4: Gold?

I'd like to see the game manual.

(21-03-2012 08:10 PM)rizt Wrote:  I'd like to see the game manual.

Try this page:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/205630/
Click the "View the manual" link on the Game Details sidebar.

(22-03-2012 01:40 AM)SapphireBullets Wrote:  

(21-03-2012 08:10 PM)rizt Wrote:  I'd like to see the game manual.

Try this page:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/205630/
Click the "View the manual" link on the Game Details sidebar.

Variable "nearby" is not defined.

And DVD-ROM isn't an actual system requirement.
For steam at least.