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Fog of War
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UsF Offline
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Post: #1
Fog of War
Please clarify on this statement, if you will:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/01/...-with-fog/

Personally, if you made fog of war aat least an option like in the Men of War games, I'd be happy to have it in the game and not wait for modders to figure it out how to make a true JA game. Fog of war and not knowing where the enemy is, means great fun to some players as the suspense grows and people try to use real tactics to advance. Making it a bit more casual by having an option to disable the fog for other players could enhance their gaming experience too.
13-01-2012 08:03 PM
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Walt Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Fog of War
it will be not in the game.

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13-01-2012 08:12 PM
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UsF Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Fog of War
Thanks for the reply.

Just to make sure, does no fog of war also mean that you can see all enemies right from the start or does it just mean that there will be no visual indication of current line of sight on the map?

In the gameplay demonstration on Gamestar, line of sight was enabled, which was nice to see and there was no fog of war.
13-01-2012 08:49 PM
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Kalypsochris Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Fog of War
Most of the enemies are visible right from the start of map. After all, with modern technology like surveillance satellites, fog of war is a somewhat dated concept. Still, it does not make the game less tactical. You still have to plan your moves very carefully. You will see that in the final game.

Line of sight and hearing distances are of course enabled in plan'n'go as well as in realtime mode and a crucial thing to keep in mind while planning your moves.
13-01-2012 11:14 PM
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UsF Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Fog of War
I thought about it for a long time and still disagree with the statement. Sure you have surveillance of the battlefield via UAVs and the like, but those equipments come at a cost and could've easily be made equipment purchasable in the game. Also any hostile that is located within a building will not be known about. Also a live feed to mercenaries from high end military grade equipment is rather unlikely.

At least having the option or for modders the possibility to enable it again will probably please a lot of people. I would compare this to the Recon scan ability in some recent shooters that allow you to basically see where the enemy is. It does not lead to much tactical behavior, but more of a fire superiority kind of thing.

Also having most enemies visible and some not visible might confuse the player anyway, unless it is mentioned in the briefing before the map "bla bla, unknown hostiles in buildings, etc."

I do not get line of sight and hearing distances. How do they matter when you already know where the enemies are? Do you just see them where they start and then they vanish into nothing again, as in there is field of view or am I misunderstanding the concept completely? It all sounds confusing, as it seems to be a mix of both concepts.
15-01-2012 04:17 AM
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Kalypsochris Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Fog of War
Line of sight and hearing distances of course matter for your mercs. They determine if your mercs can see the individual enemies or if they themselves can be seen or heard. Esssentially, the fog of war is only a visual overlay that keeps you from seeing the enemies as a player from the star on. The mercs will not see them if the fog of war is left out as long as they are not in their line of sight. All the technical stuff is there nonetheless and included for tactical depth.
16-01-2012 12:32 AM
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UsF Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Fog of War
Yes, but the problem here still is that you said not all enemies are visible, so it is also a bit inconsistent.

Basically knowing where all enemies are from the start, even with high tech equipment, is rather unrealisitc. It gives the player an unfair advantage and as mentioned on the RPS article, the best stories in Jagged Alliance are made by the players mind, when you cannot see the AI doing its thing. Maybe you feel like you caught someone unaware. Maybe you caught someone checking his buddy. With no fog, you will see that the AI is just wandering about aimlessly or standing around doing nothing. I feel it detracts a lot from the game experience of a tactical game to know where all your enemies are right away and permanently throughout a match. Comparable to disabling Fog of War in a modern strategy game, because surely spy satellites would monitor the enemy deployment. I think it is a poor choice to leave it out.

The issue of constant pausing on new enemy reveal seems like a minor issue a player could pass by with simply unpausing again or disabling the auto pause if he wants to. Maybe even have a minimum timeframe between pauses that can happen, like 5 seconds minimum inbetween autopausing (or a player option they can set to their preference). Any new hostile detected in that timeframe will cause an autopause after the time has passed.
17-01-2012 05:51 PM
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Johnny_Vegas Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Fog of War
It seems like without fog of war there will be no need for scouting/recon. I remember in the old game I'd have my weakest merc "be on lookout", facing in the opposite direction of everyone else, as sometimes an enemy would approach from behind. Also I'd do things like sneak up to the corner of a building, peek around it to make sure the area was clear, before moving on. Unless there is something I am missing that kind of gameplay is not present in the new game correct?
27-01-2012 09:35 PM
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mrgray Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Fog of War
IMHO by removing FoW concept from the game u gonna lose bunch of customers because:
- no more enemy possibilites to flanking, surprise approaches or ambushes. Planing save way to aproch a door\building\supspicious bushes is i big part of JA2 game, AI will "shine" because you removed last advanted of silicon brain;
- preconstracted battle (like fighting a garrison of SAM post or something like that) gonna be much more easier, because AI lost his last advantage - desined snipers\muchinegunners positions. Why so? Because from start of the battle u can just look at each enemy and decide r u gonna go that way or not, find a best perfect way to neutralize\flank them without any scouting actions. No more surprises.
Overall game will be much easier than it can be, removed FoW just killed a big part of gameplay. You made it because or real time battles? With all autopause options chacked in menu "active pause " works just great, i dont know why u need to remove it.
Been a big fan of JA franchise im very disapointed, i went through the demo mission 3 times, watched all gameplay video on youtube (there is some rumours about FoW in release build), but after reading that thread... Im sorry, but im not gonna buy you product.
P.S. Im sorry about mistakes, eng is my third language.
03-02-2012 02:11 PM
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