I'd like to say that this game was very good news to me. I have been looking forward to a criminal empire strategy game for a long time. I'm not the only one who feels this way, so you guys have a lot riding on your shoulders. You guys can either hit or miss with this game, and personally, I would like you to hit, but the chances of missing are pretty high.

Many people will be comparing this to Gangsters: Organized Crime, and so will I. It was a great game with depth, strategy and realism. Those who liked that game will for sure keep their eyes open for this game and expect something of that caliber; and though the game will appeal to a much larger base than that, if you don't live up to those standards, you may turn off most of those who expected a game like Gangsters. Though that game is not without its faults, it was the best thing the PC gaming community ever had for this genre.

Some things that I would like in the game are slow empire building - for sandbox option. Emerging criminals started small, constrained by the law to a greater degree, not a lot of cash flow, not a lot of criminal infamy. Slowly it was built up, not over night. I want to be proud of my starting characters, and I really want to feel the pain of their loss if they get killed or betray me or get arrested. I really want to feel like I've accomplished something when I acquire my first business - legal or not - through means - legal or not.
Naturally, all crimes have different levels of tolerability, (i.e. police might turn a blind eye to acohol consumption and/or production (for a price or not) but murders are very serious. Treat each crime with the same weight and make assassinations a serious consideration.

Don't make the game a race. Each gang should have room to grow independently and without too much conflict... that is until interests start to cross and the cities aren't big enough for everyone. Or if someone has a very ambitious trait and can be more aggressive than others. Don't make the most immediate goal to go to war and kill everyone, that would ruin it for me. Make the game about interactions, not clashes.

Gangsters had the cool concept of having people with names and homes and businesses and not randomly generated figures to fill the streets. This was excellent and made the game feel alive and real, where every person on the street was a real person with a role to play in the economy and money to be squeezed from them. This makes it perfect for finding witnesses, business owners, snitches, gamblers who owe you money, etc and are all living in the city in their own houses and businesses.

The combat, I must say, is the most concerning part of this game.
I think your approach has the possibility to ruin the game. I personally don't want to control the battles. Criminals don't have battles, they shoot a few bullets, kill a guy and run away, or get stuck in a shoot out for a few minutes, but they don't last long. Gangsters are greedy by nature, and they'd rather live than die... they aren't giving up their lives for a mission. If they die, it happens, but they're all looking to get out of there alive. They usually have one purpose: kill a person or a set of targets and get the hell out of there before they get killed. I don't need to control this, I'd rather leave it up to the AI, which I order to do my bidding where the determining factors of success are stats in shooting, weapon types, stealth, speed, etc etc.
Just make it realistic, dont have hit points, and certainly don't create classes like Tanks and DPS... humans are humans, a bullet will kill one just like it would kill another. On the other hand, give one guy a machine guy and another guy a shotgun, and they play different roles to that extent, but don't make one guy the "aggro" attracter while the other "does the damage".
What scares me the most is you're going to have classes like Tank and DPS... avoid this, please. This shouldn't be a fantasy arcade game.

Anyway, I know I'm not the designer of this game, and it's yours to do as you wish. I just have very high hopes for this game, and if you guys make it come true, you'll have me as a die hard fan, and I'm sure many others. But if it falls short, it wont have lasting appeal. Just to tell you what die hard fan means: I still play Gangsters Organized Crime... because it's a good game.

I will be following your game with great curiosity. I wish you well in your project, and hopefully some (or all) of my suggestions resonate with you, or are already on the table.

Good luck!

Foxe

(17-03-2012 03:51 PM)Foxe Wrote:  Many people will be comparing this to Gangsters: Organized Crime

Me too!
I agree with everything you pointed out. The good thing about G:OC was that you really cared about your capos and their gangsters. You didn't want them to be killed or be arrested. Shootouts were (and should) always be a risky thing to do. Not only was it important to have a gangster with good skills in shooting and stealth, but also the weapon you choosed for this job (a sawn-off shotgun for close encounters or a rifle for sniping). Also when a lot of people whitness the killing then the hitman could earn a high reputation and the police tried to arrest him on sight (or kill him). That's what made combat in G:OC so difficult, yet it was very rewarding, because the enemy AI had to "play" by the same set of rules.
Big shootouts should really be a rare occurence in Omerta:CoG. I don't mind a well planned ambush at a local gambling den, but having shootouts all the time SHOULD NOT BE the major part of Omerta:CoG.

Also, the business aspect in G:OC was good because it let you choose from a huge variety of methods of how to earn money (all had their upsides and downsides).
For example, you could earn money by blackmailing shop owners. The upside of this methode was that you had a reliable source of income (to an extend). The downside of this was that once those shop owners got beaten up or robbed by other bosses/gangsters, then they would stop paying you and even go to the police.
You could also aquire a warehouse and sell stolen goods or alcohol. You could earn a big amount of cash BUT you had to protect it from enemy gangsters or the FBI.
Illegal business gave you also some cash but you had to make sure that the "front business" was suited well for the illegal business behind it. You couldn't just build a brothel behind a florist shop and expect the FBI to not notice that. The front shop always had to somehow "match" the business which it tried to cover (also the skills of the gangster in charge of the illegal business mattered a lot).
What I am trying to say here is that the business/empire managing aspect of the game should be deep and not some tacked on thing which gets overshadowed by the action of the combat.

I watch the game and when i play i really like it so much awesome ..great work..

The artwork here really looks impressive and sound too. Haemimont (and every other company that develops games published by Kalypso) games are quite impressive, specially Tropico, Grand Ages: Rome and The First Templar.
This game reminds me of Gang Land, for sure... but too bad Omertà won't be available in the Xbox 360
But nothing's perfect, right?

(17-03-2012 03:51 PM)Foxe Wrote:  Some things that I would like in the game are slow empire building - for sandbox option. Emerging criminals started small, constrained by the law to a greater degree, not a lot of cash flow, not a lot of criminal infamy. Slowly it was built up, not over night. I want to be proud of my starting characters, and I really want to feel the pain of their loss if they get killed or betray me or get arrested. I really want to feel like I've accomplished something when I acquire my first business - legal or not - through means - legal or not.

Well, I agree. There should be some realistic approach done so that your criminal welfare won't come out of nothing in no time. At least, there should be a some kind of "difficulty settings" regulator, where you could switch how fast economy is, as in Gangsters 1, thus, impatient players could make money faster.

(17-03-2012 03:51 PM)Foxe Wrote:  Naturally, all crimes have different levels of tolerability, (i.e. police might turn a blind eye to acohol consumption and/or production (for a price or not) but murders are very serious. Treat each crime with the same weight and make assassinations a serious consideration.

Yea. I wanted to point that out as well. In Gangsters 1 murder of a cop was barely anything serious. I used to send a lot of hoods to a policemen station and just kill few hundred of cops during the working week, however, next week they were just all back on the streets. Well, of course there were a lot of in-game "investigation" going on and all of my hoods were charged with murder, but that's it. From realistic approach, killing a cop should bring a lot of problems to the "Family" on the next day, if not earlier. Of course, prohibtion era was so unstable and sometimes even police/gangster shootouts happen, but still, players should be very careful with police and FBI (if there will be any).

(17-03-2012 03:51 PM)Foxe Wrote:  Don't make the game a race. Each gang should have room to grow independently and without too much conflict... that is until interests start to cross and the cities aren't big enough for everyone. Or if someone has a very ambitious trait and can be more aggressive than others. Don't make the most immediate goal to go to war and kill everyone, that would ruin it for me. Make the game about interactions, not clashes..

I disagree on this one. Making NPC's too passive will make the game boring very soon and most players will want multiplayer. IMO, the game should be as Sandbox'ish as possilble which means different gangs should gave different levels of difficulty and they all should be differently agressive. Some are more agressive, some less. If I spend 3 hours playing doing nothing and slowly making my cash/collecting power with nobody on my way, I will just get strong enough until I can remove all my competitors and after that there will be nothing to do. So early clashes should be in, maybe not always, as I said, I'd rather it be random. Some game sessions would be more "peaceful" at start, some not, but I comepletely disagree that it should be a law that makes all NPC's friendly/passive at the start.

(17-03-2012 03:51 PM)Foxe Wrote:  Gangsters had the cool concept of having people with names and homes and businesses and not randomly generated figures to fill the streets. This was excellent and made the game feel alive and real, where every person on the street was a real person with a role to play in the economy and money to be squeezed from them. This makes it perfect for finding witnesses, business owners, snitches, gamblers who owe you money, etc and are all living in the city in their own houses and businesses.

I disagree. Most NPC's in gangsters just wander the streets during the working week. THere are few types of NPC's: working class (you cannot interact with them), gangsters, who you can attack/ambush etc, police and I think FBI, detectives and reporters are also there. But citizens you can extor from are mainly in their houses etc. I remember somebody snitched on myself in gangsters and his location and name was changed, so I had to find him by logic (only few letters were changed in his name, for witness protection needs) and send a hood into the apartament he was hiding at to kill him. So basically, I am not against a lot of people "just wandering the streets" but the overall atmosphere of the game should be realistic - glamourous Atlantic City of the 1920's, many people of different professions and occupations wandering the streets, running their businesses, having their schedule etc.

(17-03-2012 03:51 PM)Foxe Wrote:  The combat, I must say, is the most concerning part of this game.
I think your approach has the possibility to ruin the game. I personally don't want to control the battles. Criminals don't have battles, they shoot a few bullets, kill a guy and run away, or get stuck in a shoot out for a few minutes, but they don't last long. Gangsters are greedy by nature, and they'd rather live than die... they aren't giving up their lives for a mission. If they die, it happens, but they're all looking to get out of there alive. They usually have one purpose: kill a person or a set of targets and get the hell out of there before they get killed. I don't need to control this, I'd rather leave it up to the AI, which I order to do my bidding where the determining factors of success are stats in shooting, weapon types, stealth, speed, etc etc..

I completely disagree. Leaving it all up to AI is the biggest problem of Gangsters: Organized crime. If you don't remember, hoods in Gangsters die like flies, because they are virtually dumb to get away from the shootout/police. So you have to control you hood during the fight if you want some/most of them to survive. Also, many hoods often run in direction of the police/other gangsters shooting them which is basically suicide. Basically, if you remove the possiblity of controlled combat you will end up with your hoods dying in packs every time u send them somewhere. Of course it should be realistic, such as there should not be some mysterious camera through which the Don is watching and commanding their hoods what to do through the mysterious microphone (lol).

(17-03-2012 03:51 PM)Foxe Wrote:  Just make it realistic, dont have hit points, and certainly don't create classes like Tanks and DPS... humans are humans, a bullet will kill one just like it would kill another. On the other hand, give one guy a machine guy and another guy a shotgun, and they play different roles to that extent, but don't make one guy the "aggro" attracter while the other "does the damage".
What scares me the most is you're going to have classes like Tank and DPS... avoid this, please. This shouldn't be a fantasy arcade game.
.

I totally agree. Hit points would ruin (at least for me) the whole concept of this game. Well, they dont have to be all the same, I think there should be some attributes determing the constitutions, height of the characters so they dont all look alike, however if one gets hit in the head hes most likely dead or at least unconscious until docs put him up. I dont like the concept of traditional rts games where theres a hitpoint bar above a character and its slowly going down when he/she gets damage...does not appeal with overal concept of the game IMO.


I am also looking forward to this game and I am glad I've accidently found out about it somewhere on the web. As you can see I am also a big fan of Gangsters: Organized crime and yes, I am/will compare Omerta to Gangsters.

Just a small suggestion. In the Trailer (I know, most trailers show many things which do not appear in the actual ingame) how two gangsters are shooting inside of the bar or something. I would really love to see it as an actual feature - indoor combat, when other people could be eating etc and you could send your hoods to deal with. In Gangsters there is indoor combat, but you do not see it as you cannot look inside other buildings, so I hope you will implement it.

Good luck with the project!

Thanks for the responses. I'm glad a lot of us are on the same page. I've been hoping for some good responses to engage in a dialogue about this game. The more feedback the developers get, the better it is for all of us.

I'd like to clarify a few of my points for Bad Karma and maybe build on some points for a good constructive debate:

Firstly, I didn't mean to say that I wanted passive AI. What I would like to see is that there is space to grow so that at first, there isn't necessarily an immediate need to attack - obviously with exceptions, and this is what makes the game great. I'll provide an example. Let's put aside the question of the map size, cuz this could affect early on interactions as well, but let's focus on industry types. If I'm in the gambling business and another family is in the liquor industry, we have no reason to fight, but we might even be working together, in fact complementing each others' business. This is all fine and dandy, until, of course, one of us - or both of us - want (and are capable) to expand the chain of our business. Now I'll want to open up my own alcohol business so I don't have to pay retail. The other guy won't want to compete and potentially lose business, so he goes after me.
That's aggression but it's built on logical, realistic premisses. I'm all for wars, but they have to be realistic and the benefits have to outweigh the costs, which should be expensive.

Secondly, I'd like to stress the importance of not fighting my our own battles. Once we master the battle system, it loses its thrill. If you know the AI patterns and can predict moves, etc. it becomes dull, boring, and frankly, I don't care for controlling my own minions. I'd rather have the best shooter in my payroll and be more certain of success barring any ill fortune but also know that it might not work out - that's the beauty of these endeavours, knowing that you might not succeed because it's out of your control (though not out of your influence).
Remember in the movie The Godfather pt 1 when the Tattaglias try to kill Don Corleone? Remember how upset Solozzo was when he got the news? "He's still alive! They hit him with five shots in the back and he's still alive! That's bad luck for me, and bad luck for you if you don't make that deal."
Just because the AI was less competent in G:OC does not mean this game will suffer the same fate.

Hope this clears it up and helps further my cause on some important topics that could make or break the game.

(02-05-2012 03:17 AM)Foxe Wrote:  Firstly, I didn't mean to say that I wanted passive AI. What I would like to see is that there is space to grow so that at first, there isn't necessarily an immediate need to attack - obviously with exceptions, and this is what makes the game great. I'll provide an example. Let's put aside the question of the map size, cuz this could affect early on interactions as well, but let's focus on industry types. If I'm in the gambling business and another family is in the liquor industry, we have no reason to fight, but we might even be working together, in fact complementing each others' business. This is all fine and dandy, until, of course, one of us - or both of us - want (and are capable) to expand the chain of our business. Now I'll want to open up my own alcohol business so I don't have to pay retail. The other guy won't want to compete and potentially lose business, so he goes after me.
That's aggression but it's built on logical, realistic premisses. I'm all for wars, but they have to be realistic and the benefits have to outweigh the costs, which should be expensive.

I like your idea of sharing businesses. For example, my family has a bank and yours is into conterfeit press. You use my bank resources to make your business easier and pay me % for it.

Or for example, I have a casino AND underground bar at the same place (something I always wanted to do in G1 to increase profit), but now I need some girls to make even more visitors.. and your family is into this..so you send some girls to me thus increasing my and yours profit. (of course if Im not as oldfashioned as Don Corleone who was very strict about sex and dindt want to deal with hookers even though he could and it would bring some income).

I really like the concept of cooperation...hope it will be in, especially in multiplayer mode.

In g1 cooperation is alliance only, however it doesnt work with AI as it should..so the best alliances are when you play multiplayer.

I agree that there should be enoough space to start, however, I want the city districts to be something like randomly generated or something as we could simply learn all 20+ maps in a week or less and then it would be boring later. In G1, except scenarios, maps are randomly generated, so taht makes a sense of uniqueness. SOmetimes rival gang is near me so the conflict starts sooner, sometimes they are far so I can wait till they kill each other while Im getting stronger. Depends. But yea, the map definately should have enoguh space.

(02-05-2012 03:17 AM)Foxe Wrote:  Secondly, I'd like to stress the importance of not fighting my our own battles. Once we master the battle system, it loses its thrill. If you know the AI patterns and can predict moves, etc. it becomes dull, boring, and frankly, I don't care for controlling my own minions.

Thats what multiplayer is for. No matter how good AI is, it will never change the place of real players. In any game, sooner or later, you will soon learn all the moves of Ai and even the most "complicated" PvP system will seem familiar.

(02-05-2012 03:17 AM)Foxe Wrote:  I'd rather have the best shooter in my payroll and be more certain of success barring any ill fortune but also know that it might not work out - that's the beauty of these endeavours, knowing that you might not succeed because it's out of your control (though not out of your influence).

Well if AI in Omerta wont be that stupid as AI in G1 then Im fine with AI controlled combat, however, I really I really dont want them to run in the direction of bullets again A little bit of controll is always needed.

(02-05-2012 03:17 AM)Foxe Wrote:  Remember in the movie The Godfather pt 1 when the Tattaglias try to kill Don Corleone? Remember how upset Solozzo was when he got the news? "He's still alive! They hit him with five shots in the back and he's still alive! That's bad luck for me, and bad luck for you if you don't make that deal."

Well Im pretty sure these were Sollozzos guys. Tattaglias only gave him "permission" for a hit..and Barzini was behind this intrique. But its also debatable..should check the novel, I have read it a year ago heh.

Finally... I literally became a Kalypso fan! Port Royale, Patrician (practically the same games), Tropico, and now this project announced! (would mention Jagged alliance too if I had tried it, but I'm too sentimental about that brand to get disappointed)

Anyway, quite surprised to see other fellow fans of G:OC here... That game still holds the first place for me regarding cd-rom drive occupancy by far. (stream brought a whole new level to that ranking system though )... I still think it's the best Gangster themed game ever made. It actually covered every possible aspect in depth. Business, extortion, combat etc. So, a comparison comes by nature.

Now... About the npc discussion.. I somewhat agree both with Bad Karma and Foxe on that. Each npc actually had a house, job etc. But the thing is, despite being a basic system it was quite deep. There were Private investigators, judges, DA's, reporters... And all of them had a role. As soon as a citizen witnessed a crime, and if it was courageous enough, it became a witness in the ongoing investigation. Your hoods could get locked up and you could save them by bribing, kidnapping, intimidating or (last resort) killing the right guys if you were fast enough (before their trial ended).
Another thing: Land values and business incomes changed in time. And that change wasn't random, it depended on factors like crime safety, environment etc. The game even took account of the balance between dirty and taxed income, if you exceeded the balance FBI would start to investigate you.

Well.. What I really want to mention is this: Organized crime is about management rather than action. The action is a by product. And as far as I know, families operated quite like holding companies. They invested in every profitable business, legal or not legal. It was about the money. A gang war was a serious thing, gangs didn't get involved into shootouts as if it was nothing. There were diplomatic procedures.
G:OC caught this management side. That's why I still consider it the best of the genre. And it provided a decent balance of action despite the combat system being flawed. I know you guys are pretty capable of delivering a pretty good in-depth management game. I hope you wont get carried away with the action side and find the balance.
And, personally I would love it to have a sandbox side.

Good Luck with the project!

I have a suggestion regarding the hierarchy management. In G1 you could set "lieutenant" and he would manage the team of avarage gangsters.

In Omerta, I would really love to see more deep hierarchy and power distribution system. For instance:

Highest rank (it could be a boss, Don, or anything you prefer) > Underboss (if your char dies, you can play as him) > Adviser (such as the Consigliere) > Captain (he runs different teams) > Gangster > etc.

The purpose is more realism concept. I would really LOVE to see deep task giving/crime risk concept. For example, I want a guy killed. If I tell to do it directly to a gangster, it's a risk as if he gets caught by the police, he could snitch and tell them who gave the order. But if I tell it in chain..first, my Underboss..the he gives this order to Captain and he picks right men to do it. This way, it will be difficult to prove that I gave an order, even if the last memer of the chain gets caugh and snitches about his Capo, who gave him a hit order, Capo may not snitch. Or, as in The Godfathed, there could always be an antidote for this system. Any member of the chain could "suddenly" die to avoid information flow.

I would also want for all the members of the family to be able to move/ride in the cars (as well as with personal drivers/bodyguards) and simply live their lives (visit bars, sleep, visit businesses etc, and not just to sit at the office whole game as in G1.

Also, every high rank (Capo, Consigliere, Underboss) could all be killed thus I will have to set new ones for this possitions...this way the life of a Boss wont be the only matter of defense in the game..players will have to worry about sevral leading members of the organization.

P.S. The ranks I provided above, of course, should not be the only ones in game, or should not be there at all. During the 20's in America there were hundred of different crime oganizations varying from powerful crime families to small gangs. Irish, Italian, African-American, Jewish, I think even Chineese Triads and Jakuza as well as numrous other etnecity-based gangs were also working in some parts of States. They all had different hierarchies (some smal gangs didnt have any at all, of course), background and activity. However, the Family hierarcy was proved to be one of the best to avoid the law, keep the power inside the family etc, so I would prefer to play as an Sicilian immigrant.

This way in order to completely destory other player/NPC organization one will have to elliminte (make them go to jail, kill, make them flee from Atlantic city) all key members of the family - those who control it, not just a Don. In G1, once you found the office of a rival gang, you could send an army there on the next week and they would force their way through his bodyguards (if there were any set) and finnaly kill him, rather boring procedure though. Imagine shooting a car with Consigiere inside, thus weakening the rival family, as it is a very important position, especially during the wartime.

Last but not leas, I would like an option that other players, in mutliplayer sessions could join other player families and have positions there. This way two or more players could run one Family (or anything else, depends on your choice), hold different positions etc, instead of being rivals. Imagine two player families uniting into one - I think something like that once happened between two of NYC Five Families.

What do you guys and devs think? Thanks.

After reading the preview, and google translated German forum I lowered my expectations . sorry for being so pessimistic from the start but, this seems no way even being the half of what Gangsters was. Still seems like a fun game but, not the ultimate gangster game.
There was a game called Mob Rule released in 1999. It was quite fun, but didn't know what it wanted to be. Smells like a mixture of that and Gangland with a fresher touch, or a Godfather with turn based system instead of having shooter elements.
So I'm far from expecting a deep management system, hierarchy or even the slightest depth. It's indeed early for such assumptions, but as far as the preview and release info is concerned, it seems like you're not aiming for such a game, but rather a fun, playable, organized crime themed turn based tactical squad fighting game.
Anyway, good luck with it

Which preview did you read ludicer?

I am also sceptical, but it is important to note that even my grand-grand mother is a better translator than Google, so you could have (and probably did) mis understood a lot of things.

I totally agree with what Foxe and Bad Karma said: It's all about the flair, the general feeling of the game.

Gamespy Preview Wrote:.....expect to create a gangster Tank and a DPS.

This totally shocked me.
When I play a mafia game called after the code of silence of Sicilian Gangster Families, I expect Alpha-Male Dons smoking big cigars while making another good deal with the cold-blooded ambassador of the enemy Taricielli family. The deal is including shady backyard-warehouses and the death of a snitch to buy the compliance of the neighbouring syndicate.

Foxe has described it quite fittingly like this, and this is totally how it should look in my opinion:

(02-05-2012 03:17 AM)Foxe Wrote:  If I'm in the gambling business and another family is in the liquor industry, we have no reason to fight, but we might even be working together, in fact complementing each others' business.

I expect to send my trusted nephew Jacomo and Tomassetti and Small Jim to do my evil bidding in the town, and to have some reason to yell at them for failing. Again, Foxe just put it to the point:

(02-05-2012 03:17 AM)Foxe Wrote:  I'd rather have the best shooter in my payroll and be more certain of success barring any ill fortune but also know that it might not work out - that's the beauty of these endeavours, knowing that you might not succeed because it's out of your control (though not out of your influence).

And for yelling at them Tomassetti will be mad at me for some time and might defect to a rival gang, taking his knowledge with him where my hideouts are. Or he might even kill my trusted nephew Jacomo, my heir for the leadership, in an ambush to take revenge on me.

Im really looking forward to this one. I agree with most of you guys, regarding strategy type, hierarchy system, real italo-american mafia concept. But lets see what comes out, ill just wait.

My favorite games in this gender:

-Gangsters 1 &2;

-Boss: Cosa Nostra (made by some coreans, but really great, you recruited guys on the street, really cool, if any of you guys know this game pm me please.)

-browser game Godfather five families, its a browser game but the concept is there.

I'm so glad to see so many fans of G:OC (Gangsters "1") here And I hope the developers' team are also ones like we are

I'm playing to a looooooot of games, but still this game is my top favorite one after all these years ! (and it's unbelievable that no one of my friends knows this game except me I remember reading a test in a magazine about G:OC, on like half a page, with a bad appreciation... what a shame :/).

The most funny is that I found Omerta only because I was desperately searching (I did it like every 3 months or smthg like that) on Google. I wrote "gangsters" and searched in images, and after a few scrolls, I saw a picture like one which could be a modern G:OC, with more "refreshed" graphics, and here I am now ! And what a surprise (a good one ^^) when I saw that it's was Kalypso who was behind it ! But it's also sad that I learnt it by chance, only because I was searching by myself and "hardly" find it... cause I didn't see any news about this game until the recent events (gamescom for example) :/ So I really hope there will be more preview/news/ads about this game until it comes !

I quickly rode most of the threads here, and yeah, it's obvious that we're all simply waiting for a perfect copy of G:OC with better graphics It is my dream also but I don't think it will happen here But I don't mind, cause it seems that Kalypso choose an other way to play this kind of game, and if it's more like an X-Com approach, well, I think it could be good.

But, to be honest, I don't want to be disappointed like I was when Gangsters 2 appeared. For me, it looked like more as an "arcade" approach with less "details" in what you can do. I was feeling more assisted. I didn't really have the same feelings as in the previous and first game.
What I liked, in G:OC, is all the details. You can follow any one, you can have details from all the buildings and buy the ones you want, you can play the way you want (I mean you can rob money in the bank, directly, but it also mean a lot of risks, or(/and) you can do illegal business, ...), you have to build specific skilled squads, you can kidnap people and torture them, you can convert gangsters, you can have legal and illegal businesses, you can follow your squads/gangsters in independent camera views, you can interact directly with your squad (stop, follow, fire, run), you can send gangsters find other fellows to recruit, you can blackmail some police officers or magistrates, etc.
That's the degree of details I want, and even if it will be a different gameplay than the previous Gangsters games, I hope Omerta will get close to it (not that I liked to torture the enemy gangsters I kidnapped, but... ^^).
I remember all the times I spend playing to it. I was so addicted to this game because of all the possibilities.
And the soundtracks... so wonderful


Well, sorry to have expanded a bit on my point of view and expectations for this upcoming game.
Just can't wait to play a beta version or a demo at least

I want this to be like the original Gangsters and most importantly X-COM: UFO Defense. Everything needs a little bit of UFO DEFENSE MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

I played Gangsters OC and I am ecstatic about this release. I have to agree with many of the OP's suggestions. It was crazy I have been thinking about Gangsters OC the last few months and then I see this in Game Informer and I can't not hold back my excitement for the Early next year release. I am a fan of Tropico so I have faith the Kalypso team will make this a winner.

(04-11-2012 09:24 AM)soulsurfsublime Wrote:  I am a fan of Tropico so I have faith the Kalypso team will make this a winner.

You mean Haemimont...? Kalypso is the publisher only (which isn't involved in the actual development)

It's a point of pride that this thread took off as it did.
Thanks for all your feedback and support. I don't mean to bash the game before its out, but I do mean to make it the best it could be.

I must say that having played x-com, I like it a lot, but the tactical missions become the tedious part after the novelty wears off. Don't get me wrong, it's a good game and I've enjoyed it, but the tactical part gets repetitive and eventually lose their fun altogether.
Let's look at the total war series, for example. You can skip the tactical battles if you want, and there is still some sort of depth in the main strategy map which keeps you interested. X-com lacks that, and if it's not for the tactical game (which I said gets boring after hours of playing), the game has little to keep its player base.
Hence my main concern: turn-based tactical level will be the weak link in what has the potential to be a great game.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, But you can skip the combat with auto-resolve.. Crew skill affects % chance to be successfull.


Also there is no death, if your gang Drops in combat, then they get a wound which negitivly effects their traits. wounds last a Long long time, and you can have more than one.

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(08-05-2012 10:33 AM)ludicer Wrote:  So I'm far from expecting a deep management system, hierarchy or even the slightest depth. It's indeed early for such assumptions, but as far as the preview and release info is concerned, it seems like you're not aiming for such a game, but rather a fun, playable, organized crime themed turn based tactical squad fighting game.
Anyway, good luck with it

You are way off.. The game is all about deep management. You also have huge crews.. (though only 4 are used in a combat style mission) But you can have many, over 20, perhaps more than 30, i'm not really sure off hand, but it's a lot.

the Main game is all about managing your empire, making clean and dirty money, causing fear, and getting people to like you.. while you extort money, run business, and keep the heat off your back..

You can also track your maffia members as they go about their business in the city, watch the drive bys, ext.. It is definatly a deep management game, not sure about the preview you read, but if it just gave the impression it was only a tacticle combat game, it wasn't a very good preview

Quoting:

"Also there is no death, if your gang Drops in combat, then they get a wound which negitivly effects their traits. wounds last a Long long time, and you can have more than one."

No death, Why not? That's a major part of the criminal element...

Hey guys. Also happened to run across this game in a rather random fashion. Major fan of Gangsters 1 Organized Crime! Just started playing it again this week, which led me to Google for any up and coming games in the genre.

It had its faults of course but no game in this genre has ever come close to the open-ended excitement of G1OC. Gangsters 2, while a decent game in its own right, had little of G1OC's sandbox-simulator-strategy replayable goodness.

After reading the limited number of threads and reviews available it pains me to say that Omerta does not sound like it will be G1OC's spiritual successor.

Three major reasons I see for this are;
1) Combat

Personally I liked the street view of G1OC but that doesn't mean it can't be improved on or changed by another developer.

BUT special moves? This is a suspicious indication that the focus of the game is on action and combat rather than the strategic/planning experience.

2) Limited characters
G1OC needed more depth in your gang organizer as others have already discussed in this thread. More individualization of characters, even if it is randomized on each play through.

BUT limited number of characters? One of the reasons I have not bought any Total War games after Medieval 2 was because they did not have the Family Tree experience. Instead of enhancing the primary emotion/personal growth factor in the game they removed it completely. Seems similar in this case (although it is not a sequel to G1OC).

This is probably why there is no "death" in the game. It might be a big deal for me personally as a potential customer. That takes all grittiness out of the game.

You want open-sandbox play for replayability. Random henchman and an unlimited quantity (within reason of course) is needed for that. This might be a major contributor to the feeling that the game is rather... flat and boxed-in.

3) Resources as units

Maybe I misunderstand this bit but it seems you will have 5 Liquor or 3 Guns and to do certain actions you will need x of y or z? Hmm... there is something to be said to have actual goods represented in game. But somehow based on the previous two aspects that seem to be taking depth away from the game I am worried. Do you guys remember Castles 2? That is what I am picturing and while that game was fun when I was at school it was very simplistic even back then.

Conclusion:

Not saying the game will be bad. It might be some good fun and a success in its own right, but as a modernized and improved G1OC? I have serious doubts.

Just seen the gameplay movie and it looks good.
But its seems to me this will be a arcade version of gangsters OG.
So I guess we have to wait till the gangsters og creators start a kickstart project
for the remake.

Looks decent but they need to upgrade the tactical battles. It looks like something from 10 years ago.

Sorry to burst your bubble guys I loved G1OC like the rest of you but we're talking about Kalypso media! They butt rape all their customers with rushed and poorly made inferior games...I could go as far and say they are the worst game developers on the planet. You only need to look at Dungeons, Tropico series, Hell even Legends of Pegasus was another game they worked on and their partners went bankrupt on that little project. It really hits a nerve that out of all the game developers on the planet to reopen the Gangster/empire building game genre is Kalypso Media its practically a death sentence for the gangster style of games.

Ahha... Haemimont !!!!

I will spend my money on Haemimont Games (HG). I'm happy with HG quality so far.

Guys,
Looks, Kalypso is Publishing Company, they don't developed all games. They provide money/support/rights/marketing/distribution.

If most of the games fails to meet your expectation due to bugs/technical issues or "poorly made inferior games" as mentioned, blame they developer. Not the publishing company. Publisher sets the Genre/Type of Games and mostly outsource the jobs to indie studios to develop. Nothing wrong with it. I do admits they're few games under Kalypso Media that piss me off especially Port Royale 3 compare when it was developed by Ascaron, but there's no more Ascaron, Gaming Minds has been responsible to developed the games. Kalypso owns the license only. But HG developed Tropico so far are the most enjoyable games in paradise I've ever played with top notch quality. So I spend my money when HG developed the games.

Those who moans about the games and its expectation should start to learn how to develop your own games mate. Seriously, they can't meet every single expectation/request from you guys. I do play Gangster I (GOC) and II (which also got lot of technical issues same as Godfather II) but with respect, if you start complaining other people works and compared with another things, just stay away. Don't buy it, Don't play it. Maybe if you guys list down all requirement and start to develop your own games, do let me know if you start with KickStarter. I might want to throw $50 bucks for start.

Just my 2 cents here

I just need more info involving the multiplayer. I know the info is out there but I'd like to know in detail how would the co-op and the gang vs gang thing play out?

I would be carefull because of the last "release" they had.

Legends of Pegasus

I will never prepurchase a game ever again from Kalypso that was my biggest mistake ever.

I will sit it out hear out reviews and look at some "Lets Plays" before i buy this game. I played Gangsters too, and i am curious about this game too, but i will not risk another failure from Kalypso.

(15-12-2012 06:20 AM)Kingsize Wrote:  Just seen the gameplay movie and it looks good.
But its seems to me this will be a arcade version of gangsters OG.
So I guess we have to wait till the gangsters og creators start a kickstart project
for the remake.

So did Legends of Pegasus too, but we all know how it went...

(15-01-2013 01:20 PM)Omega Wrote:  I just need more info involving the multiplayer. I know the info is out there but I'd like to know in detail how would the co-op and the gang vs gang thing play out?

Here are a couple of videos that show versus and co-op multiplayer in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnQ5yGyTQVo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US0rxEXVYLk

(15-01-2013 12:02 PM)PeDaGaNG Wrote:  Ahha... Haemimont !!!!

Guys,
Looks, Kalypso is Publishing Company, they don't developed all games. They provide money/support/rights/marketing/distribution.

Thanks for opening my eyes as to the difference, I've never really actually taken a closer look when it comes to publishers and developers, that being said when I have purchased a bad game so most of my bad experiences have been when Kalypso media, followed by Strategy first.

As for watching to see if a games bad or not, forgive me for saying so. I much prefer to just pirate a games now, to see if its might be a lemon if its not then I buy it, it if is then I wipe the trash from my computer and never look at it again.

Saves my money on purchasing vaporware from developers and publishers have been bringing to the market for the last few years.

Also keep in mind I treat that pirated copy as a one day trial if it keeps my interest beyond one day then I purchase it! what happened with demo trials we used to see a lot when I was a child? It gives the customers a chance to make an informed decision on their purchase and more incentive on publishers and developers to make sure they are selling solid product...

This game looks to easy. If you have playd x-com you know. Even when gangsters get killed in combat they are rigth up for more action to soon. In x-com if they get hurt, they are gone for many days healing. And if they die they die. No way of getting them back. i realy had betther expetions for this game. the ai looks realy stupid to. running around in the open. check this out gameplay i think if the game become harder you have to think more about your moves. not just runn in the open and hope for the best like you se this guy is doing

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(15-12-2012 06:20 AM)Kingsize Wrote:  Just seen the gameplay movie and it looks good.
But its seems to me this will be a arcade version of gangsters OG.
So I guess we have to wait till the gangsters og creators start a kickstart project
for the remake.

i realy hope we will se a remake of gangsters to. becuse this is nothing like it

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(15-01-2013 01:03 AM)Daniel86 Wrote:  Sorry to burst your bubble guys I loved G1OC like the rest of you but we're talking about Kalypso media! They butt rape all their customers with rushed and poorly made inferior games...I could go as far and say they are the worst game developers on the planet. You only need to look at Dungeons, Tropico series, Hell even Legends of Pegasus was another game they worked on and their partners went bankrupt on that little project. It really hits a nerve that out of all the game developers on the planet to reopen the Gangster/empire building game genre is Kalypso Media its practically a death sentence for the gangster style of games.

agree