Tropico 3 Suggestions (Not outlandish...)
#31
Bladex1200 Wrote:... Improved reward system:
When you accomplish certain goals for the Tropican people ..., your people get improved skills and/or happiness/respect boosts. ... There. Now rewards by the people affect the people. Comments?

Well, at least I can follow it (stupid me). Certainly in principle that works quite well. T1 gave scriptors the basic tools to use such techniques in their scenarios (now to be called "missions" I think).
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#32
Timo Wrote:... the game uses a 3D engine, ... Every building requires a single (1), highly detailed rendition as opposed to individual graphics for each facing. ... The proposed suggestion with the buildings displaying upgrades or visual signs of deterioration is a very valid one. In fact, buildings under construction exhibit several stages of completion.

All buildings in Tropico 3 will cast dynamic shadows according to the time of day.

If I am able to follow your allusion correctly, a building exists as simply a geometric shape (defining its footprint) which has one or more skins 'attached' according to game conditions. It is the 'skin' which is the detailed rendition. In "modable" games, users can produce their own 'skins' to apply to buildings (and other things).

The dynamic shadows are not as significant as the passage of the sun & stars denoting the cycle of 24 hour lighting effects. Will there be phases of the moon?

BTW, how many months will pass between one sunrise and the next sunrise?
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#33
We considered visual deterioration of buildings and roads, but we couldn't fit them in the schedule, unfortunately.

The different lighting approximating the different times of day exists only for aesthetical reasons, the unit simulation isn't affected. Currently one cycle has about the same duration as one in-game month, but that might change in the remaining weeks.
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#34
assen Wrote:... The different lighting approximating the different times of day exists only for aesthetical reasons, the unit simulation isn't affected. Currently one cycle has about the same duration as one in-game month, but that might change in the remaining weeks.

But part of the "cycle" does include night effects does it not?
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#35
assen Wrote:We considered visual deterioration of buildings and roads, but we couldn't fit them in the schedule, unfortunately.

Is it something you would consider doing post-release? Delivered as a patch or free downloadable content perhaps?
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#36
In a patch? Not very likely.
El Malo is right, this is a lot of work to be thrown away on a feature which doesn't affect gameplay. And if we want it to affect gameplay (e.g. old buildings function worse), it snowballs into all areas of the game - e.g. you need to be able to "repaint" buildings, which adds an element of micromanagement not very typical for Tropico (a.k.a. the "click each building every five minutes or the city stops working" feature).

CoconutKid: The night is still up in the air; if we can't do it properly - and this includes warmly lit windows, street lamps, lights on the vehicles, etc. - it will be cut.
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#37
assen Wrote:In a patch? Not very likely.
El Malo is right, this is a lot of work to be thrown away on a feature which doesn't affect gameplay. And if we want it to affect gameplay (e.g. old buildings function worse), it snowballs into all areas of the game - e.g. you need to be able to "repaint" buildings, which adds an element of micromanagement not very typical for Tropico (a.k.a. the "click each building every five minutes or the city stops working" feature).

CoconutKid: The night is still up in the air; if we can't do it properly - and this includes warmly lit windows, street lamps, lights on the vehicles, etc. - it will be cut.


Fair enough, I suppose it would be a lot of effort to make for a feature that would be little more than aesthetic. I would rather development time was spent on the night time element personally.
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#38
Quote:I would rather development time was spent on the night time element
fine, but personally i can think of many, many, many, many, many more things i'd rather they spend their time getting right than late night at the Copacabana. pathfinding, framerate, storyline, UI, graphics, code logic (bug free) are just a few that come to mind.
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#39
The night time element would be nice. I remember playing Tropico for long periods of time (at night, mostly cause I have other stuff to do during the day) and I'd get creeped out cause I'd realize "Wow it's so late at night.... Someone could be stalking me... Like Jason or Freddie :O"
But, that's off topic. Anyway, a night time element would only be good if executed correctly. So I would prefer they spend SOME (not most, cause as Mack said there's important things to do besides that) time on the night time element, and not just toss it on. Having it implemented incorrectly hurts the game more than it adds to it.
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#40
hmm yea I wouldn't want this to turn out like assassins creed did its a completely different game and genre but it was always day and never night. That was a major flaw of the game.

But i'm sure they thought of it and if not we can make a mod for it ^_^
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#41
Timo Wrote:... Except for the interface elements, there are no "icons" involved whatsoever. Screenshots with the final interface will be released shortly. ...

Perhaps you and el_malo were using the term "icon" to mean two completely different things. Terminology in the computer field is highly dymanic.

In any case, you have informed us the the User Interface will consist of one or more "icons" which implies to me a couple of things. First, the "wall" at the bottom the sceen in T1 is gone in T3 - thereby increasing the game play area.

Then in the context of user interface, the term "icon" conjures for me the very small floating window that opens (appears) only when called; usually there are several for different purposes. There may be a single, anchored one permanently open with an abbreviated menu for the others. Perhaps some technology might allow them to be largely transparent so as to make less of an impact on the view of the "map".

Since Haemimont early on expressed dissatisfaction with the T1 wall, there has been an interest in the direction they would go with the user interface. The to be released screenies will be interesting.
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#42
What el_malo was referring to is usually called a "sprite" - a 2D image with transparent parts; 2D games, like Tropico 1 (and like our first five games ;-) ) use a bunch of sprites over a terrain to build the screen. Rotating a building (or the entire island) was accomplished by having four sprites for each direction - eight if you need rotation by 45 degrees.

As for the interface - I hope you will like it. It is smaller than the "wall", but visually and aesthetically in the same tone. I like it a lot, and I'm just a passive observer, being a programmer - the designers and artists are making it.
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#43
assen Wrote:... CoconutKid: The night is still up in the air; if we can't do it properly - and this includes warmly lit windows, street lamps, lights on the vehicles, etc. - it will be cut.

Of course your art staff has its "vision" which is unified around the story line (hopefully) and I can't download that into my mind.

However, I have to comment that the treatment of the artificial light sources is a great conundrum for me due to rapid changes in technology in the Caribbean zone during the game period. What impact does the construction of the Electrical Generating Plant have on the lit windows? Are street lights going to be one model from the 1980s through the whole game?

It really highlights the problem of simulation vs game. I hope you go light on the simulation and heavy on the game to retain the night part of the cycle. Think kerosene lanterns on the farms.
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#44
assen Wrote:What el_malo was referring to is usually called a "sprite" - a 2D image with transparent parts; 2D games, like Tropico 1 (and like our first five games) use a bunch of sprites over a terrain to build the screen. Rotating a building (or the entire island) was accomplished by having four sprites for each direction - eight if you need rotation by 45 degrees. ...

That's a very helpful clarification. I had previously associated the term "sprites" with the individuals in masses of soldiers in some war games. They were advances on the bit-map pictures of blocks of soldiers which replicated the actions of table-top lead castings style of war gaming. Long time since then, eh? But then I remember punch cards like it was yesterday.

Shy
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#45
Quote:In a patch? Not very likely.

Dang tooting, patches are for fixing bugs caused by the developer.

X-pacs are for adding totally new elements to a game.

Quote:El Malo is right, this is a lot of work to be thrown away on a feature which doesn't affect gameplay.

Assen, it is reassuring to see that you understood my intent.

99.9% of all suggestions that add little, or no benefits, to game-play.

All they would do is cause more work and expense for the developer.

This leads to a higher purchase price for games and more deserving game development being ignored.
[Image: http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/GregorPutin/elprezguard.jpg]
GUARDIA del PALACIO --- REPUBLICA de TROPICO
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#46
el_malo Wrote:... 99.9% of all suggestions that add little, or no benefits, to game-play. All they would do is cause more work and expense for the developer. ...

On the other hand Wink Wink on the Publisher's Discussion Board, they attract people to register and to post. Those things create statistics which the publisher can use to assure the people putting up the money that there is a huge ground-swell of interest in the game. It is not yet time to call in the loan they are running on.

It's a fine line between sifting the wheat from the chaff and growing more chaff than wheat. I'd say it's only 95% chaff. Well, maybe on the good days.
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#47
CoconutKid Wrote:I had previously associated the term "sprites" with the individuals in masses of soldiers in some war games.

Yep, that would also be a sprite.
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#48
Quote:It's a fine line between sifting the wheat from the chaff and growing more chaff than wheat.

CKid, as you know, many developers/publishers provide guidelines, the do's and don'ts, for posters.

I know of a number of them that clearly state in, their guidelines, crap "suggestions" will be deleted.

If a poster persists in posting crap... they will suffer mod action.

Guess what, these developers/publishers receive input that can be of actual use.

Quote:Those things create statistics which the publisher can use to assure the people putting up the money that there is a huge ground-swell of interest in the game.

I suspect that you nailed it.

Let's get lots of teen-age boys to register and post crap.

Of course, they have little or no disposable income... unlike adult posters.

Take-2 aimed their marketing towards individuals that could afford the game.
[Image: http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/GregorPutin/elprezguard.jpg]
GUARDIA del PALACIO --- REPUBLICA de TROPICO
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#49
Wow, since when did my "crap" suggestion post turn into a flame war? Seriously I just wanted to post some ideas. Stop trying to murder each other. You can do that when Tropico 3 comes out and you're arguing over who has a better looking El Presidente...
I didn't actually expect that much flaming... And yes teenage boys play this game. Like me! Big Grin
Marketing the game towards adults (in my opinion, DON'T FLAME ME) is new to me, seeing as most adults have jobs and outside lives. Teenagers have outside lives, but our jobs are either non-existant or part-time. So adult marketing might not get that far. That's just my opinion though. Either way I buy games based on how their core gameplay works, not on whether the game is targeted for adults or teens.
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