Alright, I registered just to voice this. I recently bought Tropico 4 off steam because it had been awhile since I'd played a good city builder and I had the taste for it. Tropico 4 came up when I researched. I loved it and spent the whole day playing. I then downloaded the little add ons (cement and such). Of course, I want the expansion so I download it. To my extreme displeasure, I can no longer build my charming little farms and restaurants along with a number of other buildings. I have no problem with these buildings coming available as tech increases, but don't take my option of building older ones...especially in challenge mode or sandbox. You're taking value from a game I paid you guys for. So instead of building my tiny round restaurant, I have to build a pirate ship? Cmon...fix this please.

I agree with you partly, some buildings make more sense to keep, such as a farm and ranches, and restaurants, but others such as the modern apartness and modern condominiums should stay advanced and be unable to use, plus, dont you think the building menu would become a bit big if we were allowed to use everything?

I agree and they said they may add the ability to build old buildings in a future patch.

I think I can guess your occupation. You write the jargon that is put on election ballots to get new taxes passed.

No - I don't like it.
Yes - I like it because hitting my thumb hard with a hammer feels so good.

Of course, a forced shift from one building menu to another mid-game is irritating as hell to some players. The issue is you have already paid for the game. It's you against all the thousands of other players who have paid and don't give a shit and their cohorts will buy the game likewise not giving a shit. Buildings are buildings and a couple of months from now they will be off doing another game.

Way back at the beginning of T3, some players screamed bloody murder that the Communist Block Communications Tower was an ignorant affront to any semblance of Caribbean reality. It simply did not represent anything in the Western Hemisphere, let alone the Caribbean, let alone a small, poor island. We were summarily told that it was part of the established art work and would remain part of the game -- like it or go to hell. The marketing division knew that the European buyers did not know from burned beans that it looked stupid in the game because they could see one looking out their window. What, the Caribbean doesn't look like the Black Sea?

So some important person at Haemimont has invested his heart and soul into the art work for that crazy "ship shaped" restaurant - and it shall remain in the game. In fact, they are right now trying to sell franchises for the real thing in the Greek seaside tourist resort areas. When Greece drops out of the Euro zone, their tourism will boom because Americans won't understand the exchange rates and will think everything is really cheap. Remember: expensive hotels + cheap attractions = success.

(03-06-2012 06:34 PM)CoconutKid Wrote:  I think I can guess your occupation. You write the jargon that is put on election ballots to get new taxes passed.

No - I don't like it.
Yes - I like it because hitting my thumb hard with a hammer feels so good.

Of course, a forced shift from one building menu to another mid-game is irritating as hell to some players. The issue is you have already paid for the game. It's you against all the thousands of other players who have paid and don't give a shit and their cohorts will buy the game likewise not giving a shit. Buildings are buildings and a couple of months from now they will be off doing another game.

Way back at the beginning of T3, some players screamed bloody murder that the Communist Block Communications Tower was an ignorant affront to any semblance of Caribbean reality. It simply did not represent anything in the Western Hemisphere, let alone the Caribbean, let alone a small, poor island. We were summarily told that it was part of the established art work and would remain part of the game -- like it or go to hell. The marketing division knew that the European buyers did not know from burned beans that it looked stupid in the game because they could see one looking out their window. What, the Caribbean doesn't look like the Black Sea?

So some important person at Haemimont has invested his heart and soul into the art work for that crazy "ship shaped" restaurant - and it shall remain in the game. In fact, they are right now trying to sell franchises for the real thing in the Greek seaside tourist resort areas. When Greece drops out of the Euro zone, their tourism will boom because Americans won't understand the exchange rates and will think everything is really cheap. Remember: expensive hotels + cheap attractions = success.

Ah you seem to have misunderstood me. I'm not saying the almighty ship o rant should be removed but that we should be able to also select the older restaurant. Also, the poll was partially in jest. You seem to stereotype Americans. As far as long menus, I don't mind that at all. They can be presented in a branched menu or something. I'll always opt for more options over pretty menus.

But other people mind big menus.

I don't like the options presented to me. May I recommend adding the following:

• No, I haven't looked into how the game works and think that this game was made soley for me, and that my (lack of) creative insights should drive production forward;
• I'm fine with having a campaign constructed around actual difficulty, but I would like the option for sandbox;
• I won't be a happy dictator until I can export soylent green?
  

For the record, I'm fine with the campaign being restricted and auto-upgradey, I'd just like it in the sandbox mode, which I think Timo suggested they'd look at in another thread.

EDIT: Some typos, but there are probably more I missed.

Well, yes, some of the upgrades do not strictly make sense - e.g. water purification (i.e. sewage treatment) does not eliminate the need for garbage dumps or similar facilities. Arguably they should have kept them available, much like you can choose between basic entertainment (pub) or healthcare (clinic) and advanced (nightclub and hospital, respectively).

I think, however, that that's over thinking things - MT main purpose is to fix issues in the base game: Poor scalability of transportation (metro!), excess of male-only jobs in an advanced economy (business centre), excessive religious demands (diamond church fundraising helps to pay for that one bishop per 30 Tropicans needed to keep them happy) and poor viability of farming (inefficient) and mining (finite).

(03-06-2012 07:13 PM)Gore Wrote:  Ah you seem to have misunderstood me. I'm not saying the almighty ship o rant should be removed but that we should be able to also select the older restaurant. ... You seem to stereotype Americans. ...

Oh ho! My example was not long enough or precise enough. The complaint about the Communications Tower would not still be so rancorous if an alternate open iron framework Broadcast Antenna would have been provided. As Swixel points out, Timo has said they will look at opening up the long list in "sandbox" mode.

I find it easy to stereotype Americans since I am one. I know how many of us learn our social conduct from the stereotyped characters on the TV.

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(04-06-2012 01:05 PM)ambrennan Wrote:  ..., some of the upgrades do not strictly make sense - e.g. water purification (i.e. sewage treatment) does not eliminate the need for garbage dumps or similar facilities. ...

Say what? How does "water purification" equate with "sewage treatment?"

• water purification has to do with removing disease bearing bacteria (& virises) and poisonous chemicals from drinking water (fountains).
• sewage treatment has to do with human urine and defication. Treatment ranges from pit toilets to bury it to elaborate plants which purify it before putting it back in a river. It is NOT making drinking water of what goes down the toilet.
• garbage dumps have to do with human waste other than urine and defication - that is trash of all sorts. Spoiled food and the package it came in.

Since early days, the role of drinking water in the game has been discussed. Some players have taken the position that water should be a need coequal with food. Requiring the player to be equally concerned with both water and food for the people would improve the simulation aspects of the game.

It'd be cool if water was more of a feature in Tropico.

As for the "old" buildings disappearing, it does suck, but at the same time.... On the Xbox 360 version at least, there wouldn't enough "room" in the pop-up build panel to even fit the old+new buildings on the selection screen, LOL!

I think the idea to have a new part of the build menu called 'Classic Times' for all the old style buildings that someone suggested is best but only available in sandbox or selected missions. As like you said, some of the upgrades are just.. silly.

What I find annoying in Sandbox is that if a disaster destroys one of my Cabarets or Restaurants after they are replaced by the new versions, it's impossible to rebuild them. I should at least be able to rebuild old buildings.

Quote:Say what? How does "water purification" equate with "sewage treatment?"

Sorry, I meant to say Water Treatment Plant (confused the work mode with the building name). Since it replaces the garbage dump as pollution-reducing building, I assumed that it is a sewage treatment facility

Quote:sewage treatment has to do with human urine and defication.

Since you want to get technical - well, no. Any wastewater really, which includes industrial origin.

I'll throw in my 2 cents - at the very least, for the Sandbox, let us build the old buildings - PLEASE!

I build my islands slowly. I like to take my time. Now, I feel like I'm in a race to get all the "old" buildings I want built before they dissapear from the menu... and some of the new choices are really not a good replacement for the old (restaurant is an obvious example).

This has affected me so much that I've actually stopped playing the game. I never played campaign - I always played sandbox, and now I feel like I've been handcuffed. It turned what was one of my most anticipated expansion packs in a while into one of the most dissapointing. I really don't undertand the decision that was made.

(08-06-2012 07:52 PM)ScruffyBamboo Wrote:  This has affected me so much that I've actually stopped playing the game. I never played campaign - I always played sandbox, and now I feel like I've been handcuffed. It turned what was one of my most anticipated expansion packs in a while into one of the most dissapointing. I really don't undertand the decision that was made.

I haven't stopped playing, but I've had to change my start so that I generate as much profit as possible so that I can build the "obsolete" buildings before they become obsolete. I also have to set random events to None since you can't rebuild obsolete buildings after a disaster. I don't mind replacements that actually make sense and produce more than their predecessors (Fish Farms, Bio Farms, Organic Ranches), but most of the other ones just don't make sense.