Going gold or not, I truly truly hope the devs are not just "listening" but also "implementing" what we suggest. Its their cash flow after all. Surely a patch could run parallel with launch? We could complain about the features not being in the original launch. But, whilst sloppy, we have to accept this and push for an imminent patch.

So much work has gone to the aesthetic quality of the product, I don't see why the little details should be skimped on.

Excuse my relative dimness - but what is the connection between patching and cashflow? I don't remember us ever charging for patches?

The full garage problem is not so much a capacity problem then a traffic flow problem. When you get the garage full message it means that the garage has alot of cars waiting to get out.
Now often its because the street the garage is connected to has heavy traffic on it. A car waiting to get out has to wait for space to clear on the street, something that takes forever on a high traffic street. Secondly, it takes a while for cars to drive "out" of the garage to the "waiting for the street to clear" spot. This decreases the out flow of traffic as cars cant "exit" the garage until the first car has driven onto the street completely.

So by increasing the speed at with car exit the garage the capacity will be increase enormously.

A large city will always get heavy traffic in some places. Its unavoidable. The effect of this is that the entire city clogs up as people are ether stuck in traffic somewhere or stuck in a garage waiting to get out.

lol it's tropico, not Los Angeles, there shouldn't be too much traffic. just like in real life, public transportation should be utilized to take the load off the streets.

cuban bus:

I'd like to clear up some confusion about the garages.

Gentlemen, I am quite surprised. I'd expect more people to complain about the size of Farms than garages - indeed, they are quite a lot bigger, counting the fields. Especially when the fertile grounds aren't precisely in the most comfortable places.
Some buildings may seem relatively big for their purpose - in the demo - but those are just the first two missions. I played a game on one of the later challenges where I had four garages(not quite enough, but I don't claim to be a great ruler) and 23 farms, among factories, recreational facilities, power plant, army buildings, roads and housing for 400 people.
Still, I checked and it turned out I had enough clear space for four sports complexes(I believe most forum members here already know how big they are, but still - each one is as big as ~16 Tenements) and many, many more tenements to fill the holes.
Don't worry, we do actually play the game and there aren't any showstoppers such as "there's not enough space to build stuff". That would be just silly.

Also, the garages do indeed serve an important purpose - they speed up the entire economy many times. For that reason, busses are a thing that would be fine aesthetically, but wouldn't add to the gameplay.
At one point we had this problem - you issue an order - e.g. a building to be built, or a person to be killed - and a builder / soldier just loiters around and *doesn't immediately do it*. It was pretty annoying.

Would you like it if a builder had to wait for the bus to go and finish that cathedral that you promised to the people for your next mandate?
Btw, you get the message "garage is overloaded" when building another one will speed up your game(people will wait less for a ride).

assen Wrote:Excuse my relative dimness - but what is the connection between patching and cashflow? I don't remember us ever charging for patches?

I wasn't suggesting that you charged for patches.

What I meant was the sooner complaints were met and alleviated, the greater chances for success, thus leading to better sales.

I wish I worked in the gaming industry, you imagine, where there was a direct relation between game quality and cashflow.

The sad reality is, we make patches in spite of what they do to cashflow, not because.

minmaster Wrote:lol it's tropico, not Los Angeles, there shouldn't be too much traffic. just like in real life, public transportation should be utilized to take the load off the streets.

Well, there are a lot of Caribbean islands and a lot of them do have a lot of traffic. I have heard from someone who lived on one of the Dutch Antilles that there were many traffic jams there. A rumour goes that if everyone would use their cars at the same time the surface area of all the roads would not be big enough to hold all the cars. So "tropico" does not by definition have less traffic .

assen Wrote:I wish I worked in the gaming industry, you imagine, where there was a direct relation between game quality and cashflow.

The sad reality is, we make patches in spite of what they do to cashflow, not because.

You're sounding particularly defensive which I wasn't meaning to provoke.

I am not questioning your company, nor your expertise in the game industry.

I just, like I'm sure you are perfectly aware, know how critical reviewers can be when it comes to the sequel of an adulated product. Tropico 1 is a tough act to follow!

chrono Wrote:A> ... I'd expect more people to complain about the size of Farms than garages - indeed, they are quite a lot bigger, counting the fields. Especially when the fertile grounds aren't precisely in the most comfortable places.

B> ... the garages do indeed serve an important purpose - they speed up the entire economy many times. For that reason, busses are a thing that would be fine aesthetically, but wouldn't add to the gameplay. ...

A> How does the size of the Ranches compare with the size of the Farms?

B> Aesthetics, historiography, simulation versus gameplay is a discussion in which the player/fan can never get on the winning side.

DarkLoki Wrote:

minmaster Wrote:lol it's tropico, not Los Angeles, there shouldn't be too much traffic. just like in real life, public transportation should be utilized to take the load off the streets.

Well, there are a lot of Caribbean islands and a lot of them do have a lot of traffic. I have heard from someone who lived on one of the Dutch Antilles that there were many traffic jams there. A rumour goes that if everyone would use their cars at the same time the surface area of all the roads would not be big enough to hold all the cars. So "tropico" does not by definition have less traffic .

sure, but that's in the year 2009. tropico settings are few decades in the past, i doubt there is as many cars now back then. and dutch antilles is far from similar to tropico.

A. From what I've been seeing in the demo thus far, the ranches seem to be a bit larger than the farm building but the livestock doesn't stay in the pen like I would think they should, I've seen them wondering all over the countryside instead of sticking around in the ranch paddock.

City Builder Wrote:A. From what I've been seeing in the demo thus far, the ranches seem to be a bit larger than the farm building but the livestock doesn't stay in the pen like I would think they should, I've seen them wondering all over the countryside instead of sticking around in the ranch paddock.

I think the point "chrono" was making about the farms is the area of the land that which must be left vacant for crops. My question was to probe the issue of pasture land which must be available to make a working ranch. Sorry, but I make the assumption that Tropico Ranches are based on pasture land and are NOT feed-lots. If the cows and goats are going some considerable distance from the Ranch building, that indicates they are looking for forage - not simply wandering around.

Hi Every one I wan't te express some Idea's that i got when i was playing T3 :
- In a poor country not every one as a Car (Yeah i though that to ) , so we should be able to have a Taxi company and a Bus one . You would have them by Building a Building (Taxi = Taxi Company Of Tropico ; and Bus = Tropico bus Compagny , but would the bus company private or not ?)
- We should be able to import any resource's from Food to Petrol , then we could have factory's even if we don't have the resource's on the island .
- We could have Main company building's , for example every farm will belong to a company and the company has to have a Head quarter . (We could do the same for factory's / Petrol / Wood etc...)
- We should have more factory's ( So more different place's to work ) because we don't have many different working place's.
- Put shop's in , we have furniture factory's why don't we have furniture shop ? ( A part of the furniture will go to export and some will stay to be sold ! :O) And a Car shop , because only healthy people would be able to buy them (You are going to ask me" how do you get car's ? >.> ") So since we have petrol/iron/ (Maybe the dev' could put Rubber Plant) . Yeah i didn't think of what you have in car so much ^^' sorry ... But ! you could maybe help to find idea's Oh ! since their is petrol we could have petrol station (Yeah car's work with petrol -->[] ><)
-And about the airport , i think the plane that land's is so small for 20 tourist , maybe we can have 2 different airport a little and a Big one ( With big/medium plane's ^^' )

Ok I stop now but i know that i forgot some idea's
Thank's for reading !

chrono Wrote:Gentlemen, I am quite surprised. I'd expect more people to complain about the size of Farms than garages - indeed, they are quite a lot bigger, counting the fields. Especially when the fertile grounds aren't precisely in the most comfortable places.

ok, it begs the question then if you thought farm was so big, why wasn't the size adjusted?

chrono Wrote:Still, I checked and it turned out I had enough clear space for four sports complexes(I believe most forum members here already know how big they are, but still - each one is as big as ~16 Tenements) and many, many more tenements to fill the holes.
Don't worry, we do actually play the game and there aren't any showstoppers such as "there's not enough space to build stuff". That would be just silly.

No, I think some folks don't know that. My jaw dropped when I think of 16 tenements, that's a hell of a lot of space, these other islands better be really REALLY HUGE in the game compared to the fist 2 demo islands.

//CB goes stalking off into the bushes to contemplate a sports arena that he could build many of his palaces inside of it.

I hope I get to really watch a match play in the sports arena, if I am boing to allow that large of an arena I want to see the whole 2 hour game. Don't worry, I'll wait. (taps toe)

It is massive, the largest structure in the game I believe.

Ya the sport complexe is the same size as several city blocks in the demo.

minmaster Wrote:ok, it begs the question then if you thought farm was so big, why wasn't the size adjusted?

There has to be some small similarity with the real world, don't you suppose?

minmaster Wrote:sure, but that's in the year 2009. tropico settings are few decades in the past, i doubt there is as many cars now back then. and dutch antilles is far from similar to tropico.

Well, Tropico can be whatever you want it to be. It is perfectly possible to create a capitalist tourism driven island in Tropico, which would be something like the dutch antilles. Please do not feel attacked or something, I do agree with you is some way. Still I think we cannot expect a complicated transportation simulation in Tropico. If you want more roads and mass transit you can play Simcity. I think the road system in Tropico is a very nice addition to the series. Perhaps it will be expended upon in future releases

Tropico is a small, near insignificant island. so comparisons to the greats of the caribbean is not so helpful. martinique maybe at best, or the rural regions of the larger ones. A Farm should be big, a garage should be able to fit where its useful i have no trouble with the size of the farms but the garage as it i hardly consent to suffer as they are rendered unusable by their size, they are necessary to the workings of the island but too large to fit in any of the places where they are needed. And Stadiums should be insanely massive as they are in the real world, thats why having one on your island is such a big deal, because none of the others do.
Im going to repeat the thing i keep repeating, the size the Garages should be is about the same as a bunkhouse. It would make them both useful and in fitting with the look of the island.

I, as a new poster, and therefor insignificant contributor, provide this suggestion;

Alternate "building style" for the garage, either in a patch, or part of a "Even more awesome things!" DLC for tropico (yes, I promote companies providing expanded service in return for monetary sums). It could be a Gas Station (central squat square building, two pumps and two garages), or it it could be a Residential Garage block (some small communal garrages).

What do you folks thing?

elitist american crap is what DLC stands for, dont ask me what language you have to put it in to get the letters right but thats all it is. Put a vital fix that the game requires in order to work and then make it so only a handful of people can get it and on top of that charge for it. Yeah a totally brilliant idea.

The garage is a working Garage, it is a place for workmens cars, primarily for aiding teamsters and workers to travel to and return from farms, mines and lumberyards on the islands outskirts, IT is not a parking garage for private cars to be left while our shopping in a major american city, It is not a petrol station. It should be in the game what it would be in reality [and it is already in regards to the mine], a Shed.
The game requires it as the Island doesnt run smoothly without it and it cannot be anything like the size it as the moment as in all truth the demo does not have a working garage and therefore cannot have a working economy.

Whoa whoa. Hold your fire, gentlemen
Your accusations make devs cry in a corner. We'll have to rent a whole labyrinth just to have enough corners to cry in, if this continues
Sadly, due to circumstances beyond our control(the continents haven't yet merged into Super Pangaea), you'll have to settle for Elitist European Crap.

Can we now please, please be done with this particular issue? There are far more interesting things to talk about. The statues run away from rebels, for Pete's sake(I almost don't want to fix that one ).

CoconutKid Wrote:

minmaster Wrote:ok, it begs the question then if you thought farm was so big, why wasn't the size adjusted?

There has to be some small similarity with the real world, don't you suppose?

true, in real life farms i've seen are bigger than parking garages. my comment was a tongue in cheek reply when he said he was expecting size of farm would incite more outcry.

i figured the running statutes would have been a deliberate joke that would have taken quite some actual effort to set up not just by accident.