Pirates cove
#1
Seeing there is not a pirates cove forum, i thought i would try here...


Few questions i have about this game..

(first, why is there no reloaded forum???? Kaylpso needs to get on this, along with another for Anna.)



2, does pirate happiness make them fight/work better? I know that unhappy can lead to a mutiny, but are there other benefits to making them happy?

3, I am having a hugely difficult time getting all my business to stock ale/booze/cigars/pastry. Even just having a couple buildings these items never seam well stocked. buildings are always missing something.. even just having a single pub, with a banana+papaya farm, the items never seem in stock. (i have been experimenting with skeleton haulers, this may help some)

Do these shops at least fill some need with out the stock?


wealthy captives, I can't for the life of me get these guys happy.. and all they do is take up spots that my pirates can be using! any thoughts on making these people happy for bigger ransom?


Pirate housing.. this takes up a lot of space, do the pirate houses have any effect on the citizens?

I was trying to keep pirates on one side, citizens on the other, but this does not seem to be working that great as far as getting stores stocked.. perhaps i need to intermingle a bit more? I wonder how fast anarachy/order changes. I fear putting pirates in an order place, But if it changes slowly, perhaps that would not be a bad idea.. having them tread into the "order" of daily life to get a good meal?


any thoughts on this?
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#2
I don't mean to be snarky at all, but are you aware that both a Manual and a Strategy Guide come with the game? They are in Adobe format.

I could open them up and look up the answers to your questions, but that's slow for me - and I might miss a point that you would find if you looked for yourself.

After you get through some of the basic mechanics, I'd be glad to discuss some gameplay points. For example, making wealthy captives "happy" doesn't increase the ransom. But you may find that out in the strategy guide.
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#3
(26-04-2013, 05:21 PM)CoconutKid Wrote: I don't mean to be snarky at all, but are you aware that both a Manual and a Strategy Guide come with the game? They are in Adobe format.


i bought my copy from gog.. No strategy guide there.. I have the digtial DL version of reloaded. I did a web search for guides/tips.. Most of it is out of date with broken links.. Not to be surprised on something 10 years old..

Only thing i have found is a few walkthroughs..

another thing i noticed, micro managing haulers seems to work much better than having haulers in all buildings. Let them take large loads vrs many small ones is a much better use of time..


I haven't found any numbers on how much having a pirate overload increases efficiency. Aka a pirate at a farm, vs not.. I suppose i could try it real time and see.

Another thing that is odd, watching drinks/food counters.. they are defiantly not one for one. I have no clue if that means they are all getting a portion, or perhaps some don't take anything? Watching the chuck tent, i saw the counter stay at the same number, while a few people went through. Same with the pubs.
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#4
(26-04-2013, 05:56 PM)Tropije Wrote: i bought my copy from gog. No strategy guide there. I have the digtial DL version of reloaded. ...

another thing i noticed, micro managing haulers seems to work much better than having haulers in all buildings. Let them take large loads vs many small ones is a much better use of time.

I haven't found any numbers on how much having a pirate overload overseer increases efficiency. Aka a pirate at a farm, vs not. ...

Another thing that is odd, watching drinks/food counters. they are defiantly not one for one. ...

I got my first copy of T2 on disk in the "Master Players" edition\package. So I have the two disk version with both the Manual and the Strategy Guide on disk one. I had not looked at the Reload disk before. I checked it -- it has the T1 BradyGames strategy guide in the 'Extras' folder (accessable through the flash), and both the T1 and T2 Manuals not in folders - you have to look at the whole contents (not through the flash).

So if GoodOldGames is just giving you what Kalypso published, I guess you have no T2 Strategy Guide.

Early after release, a player posted on Cafe Tropico a system for getting more out of haulers by switching them between employment buildings (IIRC) while they are inroute. It was a bit 'micro' for my interests, so I don't recalled the details. I'll try to find it when I have time.

I'd guess that the overseer increases production by varing amounts depending on experience and time actually on-the-job. I'll check the Guide.

All the examinations of food (T2 is the only game with drink) I have seen for T1 and T3 have indicated that production units do not equate to meal units. Typically (IIRC) it is not an even division so a fraction is lost - simulating wasteage no doubt.

Quote:Senor Ruina Wrote:
October 26, 2002. (T1) This leads me to the following conjecture: all meals in Tropico are 1/30 of a load. Food is always taken from farms in sets of 6 meals [.2 of a unit] or 12 meals [.4 of a unit].

I'll have to go look to see what a the load he was looking at is. As best I can interpret it, he meant production unit = 'load'. I'm not certain because he was concentrating on money to figure out how much it cost to feed a Tropican.
Edit to add: Teamsters and Workers carry only full production units although production units are tracked in in decimal tenths in the building queues. Teamsters carry a maximum of five production units while Workers can carry a maximum of two.

(05-11-2009, 09:30 AM)hitter814 Wrote: 1. Each teamster can only transport at most 1000 units of products at a time.

6. Each citizen will consider to get food from a food provider as soon as his/her household meals are no more than 3. One can only get 12 meals each time - 40 units of food - as household meals for future use. Only couples share household meals, ...

40 units is 1/25 of a Teamster load in T3. So the computations changed between T1 and T3. I don't think anyone ever looked at the issue in T2.
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#5
thanks CK!

yea, i have tried that Hauler tip, and it actually works for all workers, You fire them, and they don't quit right a way, they finish what ever task they were doing... this is actually a very nice change IMO. Makes it so you don't have to wait till they are off shift so they don't loose production.

I have found haulers, popping them from job to job is way better to keep things stocked. they work 10x more efficiently. It is amazing how much the micro helps in this way for t2, compared to t1,3,4.

One thing i did notice is they will go hit the highest supply count first, though not sure how docks work, seems like food takes priority over weapons. so if i have farms far away it is often better to put the hauler at a building close to the full farm first.. then move them to where you need the supply.

I did find that housing helps captives become passive, So i'm experimenting with putting some houses near captives..


the manual had some decent info, but some of it seems to be wrong, or had changes, Like unskilled workers range from 1-4, while skilled have 5 bars.. (they don't seem to level up like it says in the manual, perhaps this was changed?)

I think i need to do some trial and error testing.. I was thinking 4 corn farms, one with unskilled, one with overseer, and one with skilled, and one with skilled+overseer.. only issues is i will need to watch closely, t2 doesnt track units as well as t1. But perhaps i will be able to see visually as the harvest can be seen.

another little trick i figured out, you can get skilled workers in to a certain place by raising the level to medium on the building, then once they are there you can put it back to low, and they wont leave..


the food stuffs in buildings add small bonuses, though not really sure how much..



I'm currious, do you know any place that has some screenies of islands? I always like to check out pictures of what other people have done.. Ill post a few later, perhaps you might have a suggestion or two..


thanks again for the info.. you always come through!
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#6
Quote:the manual had some decent info, but some of it seems to be wrong, or had changes, Like unskilled workers range from 1-4, while skilled have 5 bars.. (they don't seem to level up like it says in the manual, perhaps this was changed?)

The game had such a short shelf life that I doubt any patch changes bumped against the maual or guide. The few patches were just bug fixes.

Working captives are divided into two groups: Skilled and unskilled. The groups are mutually exclusive and an unskilled worker can never be promoted to a skilled worker.
Both groups are necessary to your island. The unskilled are flexible and can take any job. Also they can be converted to pirates with a press gang edict. Skilled workers can work only in their chosen field. If no job in their field can be found they are idle. However, they are more skilled and also sometimes required for unlocking a new building. (You can order a ship to capture them especially.) Skills are ranked from 0 to 5. Skilled captives begin their island career with a skill level of 3, 4, or even 5 in their choice skill. ... Choice skills improve to a maximum of 5 through practice. Skilled captives never learn new skills.
Unskilled captives begin their careers on the island with a low skill level in all skills. Unskilled captives take the first available job. You may control job placement by firing workers and by restricting the numbers at a given work site. As unskilled workers do their job, they get better at it up to a maximum of 3. Captives never forget the skills they have learned and they are not permitted to retire. As you'll see from the list, some skills are found only among the skilled workers. Others can be performed by the unskilled as well. Hauling is the only skill that has no skilled captive associated with it at all. Even here, however, there is
a special hauler - the skeleton - who is in effect better at it than the unskilled workers. (Can advance to skill level 5)
Pgs 79 & 80

Severous' Tips:

Unskilled workers will do two jobs at once!
A micromanagement tip. You can have two (or more) jobs from the same worker.

Many jobs dont require the worker to be 'on-site'. For example:
- Slop gets cooked even though the cook is not in the slop tent
- Wood gets sawn into lumber as soon as someone takes up the job
- A worker asigned to wench in a new wench house will soon attract a customer who sometimes arrives to be entertained and leaves again all before the wench herself arrives.
Another key factor:
- You can fire a hauler from their job yet they will complete the path/journey they are on.

By managing job positions you can steer a worker through two or more jobs. A three job example:

- Pirate on his way to a wench. Wench is fired and job slot can be closed (or left open). The pirate will still come to the wench house, pay, and be entertained.

- The wench will look for a job in a different building. Say only a Brewers Hauler slot is open. She takes that. The Brewery has less than 20 corn so she will head directly for a corn farm, make a pick up, and deliver to the Brewery.

- Before she gets to the Brewery, or the corn farm, or even out the wench house door she is sacked from her Hauler job. (wait until she changes clothes to hauler). She will complete that corn pick up delivery even though she has been sacked.

- She will look for another job. Will find her old wench job if still open and not already filled by someone else or she may find another job. Where she goes is up to you - just micromanage the jobs available.

- Say you leave only a slop tent cook open and no one else fills it. She will go onto the job roster there. She will appear shaded out, in her Hauler outfit, until she delivers the corn to the Brewery. In the meantime you will see any corn in the slop tent being cooked.

Three jobs at once. Wenching, Brewery Hauling and Slop tent cooking. Useful when unskilled captives are in short supply, or you want to set up a Hauler convoy. (separate post follows).

Set up Hauler Convoy -
A Hauler will complete a job even if fired. You can fire them and they take up a hauler position (or any other job) elsewhere yet will still complete that pick up job they were doing.

This leaves the hauler position open. Say its a sawmill with two experts sawing away and they are short of wood (less than 20). You need loads of wood as those experts will saw fast. Ensure another worker takes up the now vacant hauler position. That worker, if idle, will now find the nearest timber camp to their current location, and head to pick up a load of wood.

You now have two haulers on wood pick ups. Repeat as many times as you need to, want to.
I've created a stockpile of 588 wood at a saw mill in one test games.

Quote:One thing i did notice is they will go hit the highest supply count first, though not sure how docks work, seems like food takes priority over weapons. so if i have farms far away it is often better to put the hauler at a building close to the full farm first.. then move them to where you need the supply.

IIRC, the hauler convoy system can cause real problems with Docks. Although you start with only one, soon you will want several, AND you will want a balanced supply at all of them because returning ships will use any vacant dock. Docks receive:
  • Sea Rations (not just any food) from the Sea Ration Factory or Black Market
  • Cutlesses from Blacksmithy or Black Market
  • Muskets from Gunsmithy or Black Market
  • Cannon from Cannon Foundry or Black Market
They employ two haulers and an overseer each. Once goods are picked up by a hauler for a dock, they are there until used - no switching between docks.
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#7
Quote:2, does pirate happiness make them fight/work better? I know that unhappy can lead to a mutiny, but are there other benefits to making them happy?

Since I am not an expert player, this is a hard question for me. I don't think the "better" work (fighting is part of work) comes from a high level of happiness; it seems more related to skill and qualities. Unhappy is not just a maybe thing. The Pirate Coup is the T1 election, protest, coup and uprising all rolled into one.
Edited to add: I noticed a brief comment in the guide that the happier a pirate is, the more willing they are to go on a cruise. I take that to mean that they will answer a boarding call quicker.

Pirate coup is possible all the time in Pirate Cove. Pirates don't wait for an election day. If they hate you enough, they take you out. At any time you can check how you are doing at preventing a coup by looking at the scale picture in the circle window. For details, click on the scale and look at the graph that appears.
One skull represents each pirate. Only pirates in the red zone support a coup. When a majority of pirates are in the red, the coup occurs and you lose. There is no way to fight it off at this point, but you will receive warnings along the way. When you start to see coup warnings, quick action is required. One method is to send many of your pirates into dangerous areas aboard weak ships. Their ships sink, end of problem. (Well, sort of - you have to replace the ships if you want to stay in business.)
You can also assassinate particularly angry pirates on the island. The Island Log is a useful tool for finding these unhappy pirates. Open up the pirate demographics section and click on 'happiness'. Then, by clicking on the pictures of unhappy pirates, you can locate them on the island and begin systematically assassinating them. Of course, you can also try to make them happier instead. That really depends on what kind of pirate king you want to be.
pgs 92 & 93

Quote:3, I am having a hugely difficult time getting all my business to stock ale/booze/cigars/pastry. ... buildings are always missing something - even just having a single pub, with a banana+papaya farm, the items never seem in stock. Do these shops at least fill some need without the stock?

First, I guess you understand that you need buildings besides the farms, and that the entertainment buildings do not each stock every bonus item.
  • Bakery makes pastries out of bananas and\or papayas
  • Brewery makes beer out of corn
  • Cigar Factory makes cigars out of tobacco
  • Rum Distillery makes rum from sugar cane
  • Animal Pit - no bonus
  • Brothel & Salon - bonus = cigars
  • Casino - bonuses = rum & cigars
  • Cheap Eatery - bonuses = beer & pastries
  • Courtesan & Spa - bonus = cigars
  • Gambling Den - bonuses = beer & cigars
  • Inn - bonuses = rum & pastries
  • Smuggler's Dive - bonuses = beer & raw papayas\bananas
  • Tavern - bonuses = beer & rum
  • Wench & Masseuse - no bonus
Page 99 of the Guide: Each establishment has a Base Satisfaction value for each activity that it provides — Wenching, Feasting, Drinking, etc.
If the establishment provides any special commodities for pleasure — Beer, Bananas, Papayas, Rum, Cigars, or Pastries — each available commodity has a bonus value.
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#8
thanks for the info!


I didn't realize that workers could have three jobs.. But honestly that seems a bit like an exploit to me. So in the frame of fair game play, I think i would avoid that..

I think i will take advantage of sending more than one hauler to create stock piles at places, like a mill or brewery.. this would let me focus on other things and a bit less on managing haulers.


I didn't know about the scale/skull thing, so that is helpful, though i have never had a pirate coup, only citizen uprising and lost a few games cause of it.. I guess that is one reason to keep palace guards! I typically fire them, cause they seem to do more good cracking whips. (works great till an uprising)


onto entertainment.. I have been having better luck with stocking items since i figured out the hauler micro,, this is letting me use more captives to farm. If i only need 5 haulers, vrs 20+ that is like 5-8 farms! this is helping a lot with getting items stocked.. also micro haulers lets me stock certain buildings.. though they still pick what to haul first on buildings with multiple item bonuses.

I do think part of my problem with keeping things stocked i was collecting to many wealthy captives, these buggers eat up everything!

to curb this i have started to keep only some, and the extra's just kick off the island when they first arrive. i can get 800-1200 sent right to the treasury. though I haven't really looked into if i would be making more cash, if i sent home all the ones that were there a bit..

need more testing on that end.. But i do know if i keep um a while, they can get up to 400-500+.. if they are on the island a short time, they only get to maybe 150-200.. sure that is double, but i just haven't figured out the time needed to increase the value.
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#9
(25-04-2013, 04:43 PM)Tropije Wrote: wealthy captives, I can't for the life of me get these guys happy. and all they do is take up spots that my pirates can be using! any thoughts on making these people happy for bigger ransom?

Manual: You'll receive their starting ransom, plus the amount that has been added based on their expenses on your island. ... wealthy captives do not try to escape; (all captives do not register happiness, only resignation). They are content to wait for their friends to pay their ransom. The only reason for satisfying their needs is to increase the money earned from ransoming them.
Wealthy Captive Needs
Food - Feasting.
Alcohol - Drinking.
Companionship - Wenching or Preening.
Entertainment - Gambling.
Shelter - Resting.
Unlike working captives, they do not worry about religion.

GUIDE: The Great Power nations don’t learn of your dastardly deeds against them until they hear it from an escaped, released, or ransomed captive. Captives remember the event of their capture, except when a Letter of Marque legitimizes your actions in the eyes of the Great Powers. When a captive escapes or is released or ransomed, he reports his capture to the nation victimized by the event. If the nation hasn’t already learned of the event, your relations with that nation worsen.
So captive "escapes" pose two dangers: first, there’s a 15-20 percent chance (higher for captives of higher social class) that their home nation will discover the location of your island; second, there can be a serious diplomatic impact.
pick one of the nations as a primary target. This can be dictated by a particular scenario’s setup, but it’s usually the nation that owns the first discovered settlement. have a nation to leave alone in case of need for a patron to protect from another nation - It’s very helpful to have a supply of captives you can ransom or release and/or pirates you can betray so you can improve relations on short notice.

So wealthy captives are much more important than simply a way of making money.

Quote:Pirate housing. this takes up a lot of space, do the pirate houses have any effect on the citizens?

Manual: Pirates have six immediate needs to meet on the island. Their long-term opinion on how these are being provided (over time) plus the environmental factors of defense and anarchy are added up to create the overall happiness of each pirate.
Shelter - Resting. This pirate's opinion of the value of his/her house (or lack of house). - to satisfy the need for shelter, a pirate must rest in his/her own home. Pirates without homes will rest on their ships but will never be completely rested (dark green) from doing so.
Pirates need a house to meet "stashlng" need.


Yes - they do take a lot of space, but they are necessary for at least Captains and probably officers -- if you can manipulate things so they will get first chance at them. I haven't found the key for such manipulation. As far as effect on captives, they emanate anarchy.

Quote:I was trying to keep pirates on one side, citizens on the other, but this does not seem to be working that great as far as getting stores stocked. perhaps i need to intermingle a bit more? I wonder how fast anarchy/order changes. I fear putting pirates in an order place, But if it changes slowly, perhaps that would not be a bad idea. having them tread into the "order" of daily life to get a good meal?

The Environmental Auras
In addition to the efficiency of keeping specialized areas (industry, agriculture etc.), the presence of the environmental auras on the island must be factored into your planning. ... by the end, most of the people on your island will have their happiness or resignation strongly affected by the environment.
Fear
Fear is the environmental aura that is easiest to supply with no downside. More fear is always good for keeping captives in check (at least until maximum strength is reached in an area). Pirates are not at all affected by it. Because there will be areas of your island that do not have high order, you can always use fear to counteract this with no harmful consequences. Therefore, fear should be high everywhere except in areas that have no captives, such as a district of pirate houses. [It would be a waste of time and money to promote it there.]
Order vs Anarchy
Along with fear, Order adds to captive resignation. Anarchy, on the other hand, is attractive with the fun loving pirates and adds to overall pirate happiness. However, these two factors are opposites. If you look at the anarchy and order overlays, you'll notice that they are reverse images of each other. Areas with lots of (green) order have no (red) anarchy and vice versa. It is impossible to have a lot of anarchy AND order in an area because the effects cancel each other out.
You'll have increased order in areas where pirates are rarely found, and increased anarchy in areas where captives are rarely found. Generally, its best to keep your island orderly except in two particular districts: pirate housing and pirate entertainment. Most pirates tend to congregate in these areas provided you've zoned your island well. Here they can find the anarchy they need. In fact lots of the buildings built in these areas emanate anarchy, and you may not need to build any anarchy décor at all to get the effect you want. ... keep your pirate-related structures near the docks. Otherwise, pirates getting off their ships may have to walk through an orderly district.
You've probably already seen the problem or the limit to this strategy.
What about the captives that work at the docks, or work in pirate entertainment? There are several things you can do to minimize the effects of anarchy on these captives:
1.) Make sure your entertainment district is high in fear. This, at least, will help the captives in that area become resigned, even while the anarchy they experience encourages escape. ...
3.) Set your chuck tents, churches, and bunkhouses near the entertainment district but not in it. Make sure there is a lot of order around these buildings.
When your entertainment workers temporarily leave their work sites, they
will walk into these order areas and get a good dose of order while they are eating, resting or praying.
Defense
Defense factors in the environment have no harmful effects on captives and make pirates feel much happier and more secure. In fact, a few of the defense structures cause some fear as well, so they will have an extra beneficial effect on captives. Build defense-causing structures and décor in areas near the docks, near pirate entertainment, and near pirate housing.

It seems to me that anarchy\order changes on an individually variable rate - also dependent on the intensity of the aura. Remember that pirates working as overseers in an orderly area need to be able to afford to visit the entertainment zone to keep their anarchy up.
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#10
(26-04-2013, 05:56 PM)Tropije Wrote: I haven't found any numbers on how much having a pirate overseer increases efficiency. ...

The manual mentions that the Overseer not only increases production, but also adds fear. I did not find anything in the Guide (yet). I did find that Severous has posted a lot of production figures at the Cafe. Here is a sample:

Some numbers from [the Sea Ration Factory] an industry it's difficult to do without.

What every one must already know -- the higher the skills the better.

Figures are Sea Rations produced per 100 day period:

One Cook :
Skill 3 = 15.1 + Overseer = 17.1 (+13%)
Skill 5 = 19.6 + Overseer = 22.2 (+13%)

Two cooks:
2 x Skill 0 rising to 1 = 15 (no Overseer)*
2 x Skill 1 rising to 2 = 21 (no Overseer)
2 x Skill 2 rising to 3 = 25 (no Overseer)
2 x Skill 3 = 29.4 + Overseer = 34.4 (+17%)
> Skill 3 & Skill 4 = 32.3 (no Overseer)
> Skill 3 & Skill 5 = 34.6 (no Overseer)
2 x Skill 5 = 37.7 + Overseer = 43.2 (+14%)

An Overseer providing 'encouragement' spurs those skilled cooks onto even greater heights. Will keep the ships sailing and the haulers hauling - just keep the corn coming. (He doesn't mention the Overseer's skill level. Presumably it changes too.)

*Skill will increase within a 100 day period. Only the first month tends to be at these lowest skill levels.
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#11
(28-04-2013, 04:05 PM)Tropije Wrote: I did find that housing helps captives become passive, So i'm experimenting with putting some houses near captives.

Bunkhouse provides resting (86%) for five captives. No emanation.
Hotel provides resting (98%) for eight wealthy captives. Emanates order.
Inn provides resting (20%), drinking (20-63%), feasting (39-98%) for 12 pirates and wealthy captives. Emanates ? (anarchy & fear).
Stockade provides resting (59%) for 15 (unemployed?) captives. Emanates fear & order.

Quote:I think i need to do some trial and error testing. I was thinking 4 corn farms, one with unskilled, one with overseer, and one with skilled, and one with skilled+overseer. ...

Severous: I've been recording the harvest of my corn farmers.
I cannot predict the harvest of each trip to the fields - but there appears to be the expected link between skill level +/- overseer and the amount harvested. I suspect the difference brought in is down to the fertility of the square harvested.
The amount harvested always appears to be a whole number. Skill 5 farmers with an overseer are always bringing in 3 or 4 from my observed farm.
The attached file [attachment lost from original] shows the average amount harvested with different skill farmers and if an overseer was present of not.
Can anyone answer these questions ?
1) Does the skill of the farmer Planting the crop make any difference to the amount harvested later once the crop has matured ?
2) Skilled farmers can work on any farm - as can unskilled farmers (once a skilled farmer has appeared to unlock construction for other than corn). But where do the skilled farmers make the most difference ? Where do you put them to work - corn farms or elsewhere ?
Updated table [lost from original] with observations from skill 5 farmers working without an overseer. Suggests that the farmers worked just as well without an overseer as when they did.

Charlemagne (game designer): It's very tough to give ratios [of numbers of people to buildings] because there are so many factors. How skilled are the workers? How far do the items have to hauled? How high rank are the pirates who need to be entertained? and so on. But, I'll give you some general impressions from games I've played.
Corn Farms: I try to have three by about the middle of the second year of a game. Then maybe a couple of more as the game develops. Of course they are used for beer, rations, and slop [only].
Chuck tents. Maybe 1 per 30 captives or thereabouts.
For me entertainment has more to do with rank of pirates than simple numbers. The numbers issue often depends on how many wealthy captives I'm keeping around. I do like to have two breweries during the mid-game.
Bunkhouses are less critical since captives can sleep outside if they need to. I build these late, and I don't worry if not everyone gets to sleep indoors.
Finally two industries that to me are the most critical. I like 2 sea ration factories by mid-game, and as many as 3 or 4 sawmills. I try to build the second sawmill very early. One of my first priorities.

Pinstar: I try to have 5 total slots of 1-3 entertainment stuff (One building of each of the low levels, and 5 brothels)
Then one building of each of the mids all set to 4-6
Then one of each of the highs set to 7-9
If I'm keeping lots of wealthy captives, I build extra Inns. Since that keeps them fed, drunken and well slept without their having to invade the pirates' structures.

I suspect the Inn might prove to be a very useful building without regard to numbers of wealthy captives if there is restricted space for Pirate Housing.
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#12
(28-04-2013, 04:05 PM)Tropije Wrote: another little trick i figured out, you can get skilled workers in to a certain place by raising the level to medium on the building, then once they are there you can put it back to low, and they won't leave.

Manual: pg 26 Captives are assigned automatically to any building that has openings. Using the 'priority' menu, you can control which buildings are assigned new captives first. Workers first look for any openings in the buildings set to the highest priority, then the second highest, and so on. pg 77 The largest segment of the island population consists of working captives. These captives may be skilled or unskilled. Working captives are usually at their work site. Rarely are they allowed to leave for sleeping, eating or praying. They also leave during a rebellion or escape attempt. If a working captive cannot find a job on the island, you will find them in the stockade most of the time.
Captive control is determined by how resigned the captives are. Resigned simply means that various factors in their lives make then unlikely to try to escape or rebel against the pirates' evil rule. The elements that add up to resignation are as follows:
Food. Captives are released from work to eat slop at a chuck tent.
Shelter. Unlike pirates, captives are not attached to their sleeping quarters. They have to sleep anywhere vacant. They will prefer to sleep in a bunkhouse if a spot is open nearby. Otherwise they sleep on the ground where they don't get as much rest.
Prayer. Periodically, captives are released for church, if there is a church on the island. Meeting this need tends to make captives more resigned.
Fear. An environmental factor caused by various structures on the island. Much fear adds to resignation.
Order. This is another environmental factor that adds to resignation.
Other possible factors - Captives who perceive evidence of highly successful or impressive pirates around them tend to be more resigned to continued captivity. For example, a large rich looking palace or pirate mansion can have this effect.
If you are keeping a really close look at some particular captives, you can use the thoughts panel to check up on them. Their thoughts (in red) will tell you what elements of resignation are not being met for this captive. You can try to fix it. If a captive is considering escape, his/her thoughts may well let you know this in advance.

Guide: Cruises can bring you skilled captives. When a ship arrives in port with a kidnapped craftsman, he/she automatically replaces an unskilled worker at the appropriate work site. If no such work site exists yet, the craftsman goes directly to the Stockade. So if a Skilled Lumberjack arrives on your island, he automatically steps into a slot at one of your Sawmills or Timber Camps, even if their rosters are currently full; he just bumps an unskilled worker out of a slot. The captive formerly occupying that slot then seeks work elsewhere as an unskilled laborer. ... If you kidnap a Skilled Lumberjack for your Sawmill but all of its work slots are filled, he may end up going to a Timber Camp instead. If that happens, simply pause the game, fire one of your Sawmill lumberjacks, and then fire the Skilled Lumberjack from his Timber Camp. Un-pause the game. You may have to micromanage a bit. Lock out empty slots in places where you don’t want the skilled labor, create an open slot in the place where you do want the skilled craftsman, then fire that craftsman from the lowly slot he or she took instead.

I probably ran on too long about that stuff. But maybe something was obscure the first time you saw it.

Quote:the food stuffs in buildings add small bonuses, though not really sure how much

From the Guide:
Building - Activites ; Base - Service Constant - Commodity Bonus
> Smuggler’s Dive Drinking 50 Service 10 Beer 50
Feasting 50 Cook 10 Ban 15, Papa 15
> Wench & Masseuse Wench/Preen 100 Wench 20 —
> Animal Pit Gambling 100 Service 10 —
> Tavern Drinking 70 Service 10 Rum 70, Beer 50
> Cheap Eatery Drinking 30 Service 10 Beer 30
Feasting 70 Cook 10 Pastry 70
> Gambling Den Drinking 45 Service 10 Beer 45
Gambling 100 Service 10 Cigar 65
> Brothel & Salon Wench/Preen 120 Wench 25 Cigar 40
> Casino Drinking 50 Service 10 Rum 50
Gambling 100 Service 10 Cigar 75
> Courtesan & Spa Wench/Preen 130 Wench 35 Cigar 40
> Inn Drinking 40 Service 10 Rum 70
Feasting 90 Cook 10 Pastry 110
Resting 50 — —.

It's a bit difficult to read, but there are the base figure for the algorithm.

Quote:I'm currious, do you know any place that has some screenies of islands? ...

There used to be a few at the "Cafe" but they were lost in a hack. I don't know of any other sites left which cover T2.

(29-04-2013, 05:01 PM)Tropije Wrote: I didn't know about the scale/skull thing, so that is helpful, though i have never had a pirate coup, only citizen captive uprising and lost a few games cause of it. I guess that is one reason to keep palace guards! I typically fire them, cause they seem to do more good cracking whips. (works great till an uprising)

Guide: A heavy-handed sense of Order can work wonders in your outlying labor areas. Farms and the industry cluster near your iron deposits are busy labor centers, so you should spend some time and lumber planting rows of Orderly Shrubs and Décor along the rural roads. Captive workers trudging between work, Bunkhouse, and Chuck Tent will get constant reminders that any wayward thought of escape is absolutely futile in such a controlled, well ordered environment.
A sense of Order, unfortunately, has very negative effects on pirates. And many of your captives actually work in the docks, dives, and gambling dens of your riotous pirate entertainment district. You don’t want any Order there. So how do you keep those workers in line? Keep them in line with Fear, of course! Fear cows captives, but doesn’t even faze your pirates. So fill your Docks/Entertainment district with scary stuff such as dismembered arm sculptures and hanged skeletons and so forth. Maybe even erect a Gallows, just for the fun of it. Add a Watchtower as a friendly reminder. Keep the Fear factor high to frighten away all their Anarchy-inspired thoughts of escape.
Religion is a wonderful thing. Really, there’s no better way to keep an oppressed population resigned to the injustice that is its fate. By all means, kidnap a Skilled Priest and cough up the measly 18 lumber it costs to build a Church. Watch those pews fill up fast, the hymns rise to the rafters, and the worker discontent drop like a rock.
When you click on Thoughts in the Character Dialog of a captive, you gain the godlike ability to peek inside his or her simple psyche. First, note that they are color-coded, just like other aspects of the game. Thoughts written in green indicate a satisfied, resigned worker. Thoughts in red indicate a mind ready to snap. For example: “You can get away with murder on this isle—hah!” If you move your cursor over the red letters of this thought, you get a message below that reads, “Warning: Captive order is very low in local area.” Better do something about it, quickly. Or you risk an escape attempt…or worse, a bloody rebellion.
Sometimes a few unruly captives will escape your attention, especially on bigger, harder-to-manage islands. If one worker snaps and decides to escape but he finds some likeminded captives around him, a nasty rebellion can result. The scurvy rebels will literally storm the palace and make an honest effort to remove the head of the island — by beheading you. This attack will come swiftly and directly. Rebels are single minded, and will never return to their slop-wages jobs. Every one of them must be killed or else they succeed in lopping off your best feature — game over. Your palace guards defend you, of course, as do any other pirates along the route that the rebels take to your residence. If the attackers manage to breach the palace and they outnumber your guards, you lose. On the other hand, if your assigned guards outnumber the attacking captives, the rebellion is stamped out.

Quote:onto entertainment. ... also micro haulers lets me stock certain buildings.. though they still pick what to haul first on buildings with multiple item bonuses. ...

I think with the rough chart I included in a previous post, you will see that the bonuses are more important in the higher class establishments.

Quote:i was collecting to many wealthy captives, these buggers eat up everything! to curb this i have started to keep only some, and the extra's just kick off the island when they first arrive. i can get 800-1200 sent right to the treasury. though I haven't really looked into if i would be making more cash, if i sent home all the ones that were there a bit.

need more testing on that end. But i do know if i keep um a while, they can get up to 400-500+. if they are on the island a short time, they only get to maybe 150-200. ... but i just haven't figured out the time needed to increase the value.

You are just getting a pay-back for what they eat & drink instead of your pirates getting it. I covered them in the post right after yours on the 29th.
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#13
The strategy guide for T2 Pirates Cove can be found right here and the T2 manual here.
Enjoy the Night
Nachtschatten

Die letzte Stimme, die man hört, bevor die Welt explodiert, wird die Stimme eines Experten sein, der sagt: „Das ist technisch unmöglich.“
(Peter Ustinov)
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#14
A reply has been posted ... by Rebel-Yell. The text of the reply is shown below:

Quote: from: Coconut Kid on 01/30/10 at 12:41 PM
Now I wonder where
  • local
  • trade
  • naval
are defined. Well, I guess I should say I wonder if both local and trade are rich prey for cruises.

Quote: from: Charlemagne on 04/16/03 at 02:04 PM
(1) At the start of the game each region has a rating from 0 -9 for [each of] local traffic\trade, long distance traffic\trade, and naval\war vessels. This is a total of 9 numbers for each region because the different nations have different numbers.

(2) When a game starts there are some [assume a random number which may be anywhere between 0 - 9] number of points of unallocated naval\war traffic for each nation. Every month the nations move 1 point into the currently most plundered (gold and captives) region, until they have no unallocated points. Also, they move a long distance trade\traffic points out of the most plundered region.

(3) Once they are out of unassigned points, they start reassigning based on the same criteria. Moving points out of non-plundered regions into plundered regions. [It seems that this illogical statement has to do with naval\war points rather than all three types.]

(4) The points are used to figure out what you encounter when a target is sighted on a cruise. The highest level possible is 9 naval, 9 long distance trade & 9 local traffic (for each nation). Obviously if a region has reached the 9 level for naval and has moved down to 1 on [both] the merchant levels, almost all of the encounters you have in that region (with that nation) will be with naval ships.

(5) Settlements [farmsteads, trading posts and military posts] provide a boost to these point tallies. A farmstead gives a boost to local traffic and so on.

I regret that there will be no authoritative reply to these questions:
>> 1 Does "merchant level" mean both local traffic and distance trade? I suspect it does, but why should the algorithm treat them both the same? While distance trade will drop to 1 ; local traffic should never drop below 4 because it should always be very poor pickings (even at 9) indeed. Meanwhile - it is like bait on the hook for the naval forces.
>> 2 That's interesting. Now one has to discover the classes of settlements.

1. Indeed, I also see the contradiction in Charlemagne's words - in the 3rd paragraph he only mentions long distant merchant traffic, while he talks of "merchant levels" in the 5th paragraph. Unfortunately, I have played T2 over the last years only very occasional and superficial and have lost a lot of experience from the days I played it regularly -- but I'm pretty sure that this question can be answered empirically by testing it out.
2. The strategy guide states that farmsteads will boost local traffic of small vessels, a trading post will bring more big Merchant Ships and that a Military fort means that you always encounter some warships in a seazone.

Sadly Charlemagne has not posted anything on the 4th type of ships you can encounter - other pirate vessels. They can be quite interesting targets, as they tend to bring you certain skilled captives you can't get from ships of the European nations and - of course - lots of new recruits.



WOW! What a good guide for selection of map regions for crusing. The various shore settlements indicate:
  • Farmsteads = more small ships for local traffic.
    • Unchanged by looting.
  • Trading Post = large merchant ships on longer trips.
    • Withdrawn if looting is intensive.
  • Military Post = greatly increased chances of encounter of naval\war ship.
You really need to expend some time and effort on exploration, eh?
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#15
One of the problems in gameplay is keeping a balance between the number of pirates and the number of captives. It's fairly easy to keep enough pirates you have the Press Gang edict to convert captives and volunteers from ships captured on cruises.

However, the supply of captive workers depends on a more complicated sequence of raids. Only a thin number of working captures from cruises - most are non-working rich. So it is not unusual to reach a point with lots of pirates but a distinct shortage of captives.

There are a few edicts which one rarely uses. Yesterday I was running a couple of tests to collect a set of data on buildings when I tried one - Betray Pirates (nationality). This edict is mentioned in the strategy guide under international relations in association with the Free Captives (nationality) which causes all such captives just to disappear. The discussion popup makes it sound as the results litter the place with dead bodies and reveal the island location whilsts such pirates just disappear.

Well that's not what happens. I was surprised to see all the "betrayed" pirates reduced to captive status. It was the end of my play-day, so I did not check any of the rest of the data - happiness, etc. I'm certainly going to investigate this further.
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#16
did they turn into the worker/slave captives? Or the wealthy i can sell them later kind?
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#17
(20-07-2013, 12:35 PM)Tropije Wrote: did they turn into the worker/slave captives? Or the wealthy I can sell them later kind?

The worker kind - not even the skilled worker kind.

HOWEVER, I made a major mistake. I generalized from a single example - and a very specialized example at that.

I discovered that in regular gameplay, the betrayed pirates (including captains) do, indeed, disappear from play; and if you have a graveyard, they show up there.

To explain the special circumstance which gave me a different result:
I was using the single game scenario Tools of the Trade (with several years played) to experiment with the cheat "freebuild" and some other things to record the size of all the building footprints. I had all the buildings except the pirate palace and the looped roads removed from the map. I had already removed all the captives by using the free captives edict three times. I then used the betray pirates edict. Instantly that nationality pirates were transformed into captives. Opening the log book to the demographics tab revealed them (in captive avatars) in the captive section -- which before had been empty.

I speculate that somehow (perhaps with the "freebuild" cheat on) I had stumbled onto a feature of the developers' tools, or an artifact of early development which did not make it into the final game.



Sad I very deeply embarassed myself. I have to track back and correct several posts at the Cafe.
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#18
(25-04-2013, 04:43 PM)Tropije Wrote: ... there is not a pirates cove forum, i thought i would try here. ...
(first, why is there no reloaded forum? Kaylpso needs to get on this, ...)
...

I was shocked to notice - finally - that Kalypso published the unpatched version (1.1) of T2 - Pirate Cove on their Reloaded Edition.

Frog City published a patch which made extensive corrections and improvements. The updated version is 1.2.

Anyone who purchased the game on disks after the initial publicathion but before the Kalypso 'Reloaded' edition, has the 1.2 edition. This error by Kalypso is really quite unfair to anyone who bought the game on disk. I suppose that they have corrected the error with all the vendors who are selling the download version. Who knows if the patch is still available somewhere.
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#19
I just fired up the install of my digital reloaded version from GoG, it lists the game as version 1.2
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#20
That's good for you. I'm glad.

I bought "Tropico Reloaded" at 'Target' off the shelf on a disk. That's how I got version 1.1 - who knows how may others got that introduction to Tropico 2 - Pirate Cove ?

Of course no one cares any more for the stupid people who buy off the shelf.
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#21
heh, i always bought retail on disk till sometime last year... Now i find it just so convenient to get digital, and especially with the great sales that they have. Reinstalling your system, getting back up and running is so easy. Now with the supersize flash drives, a place like gog, i just keep a stick with all my DL's on it, and then install like 20 games in an hour.

half the games i own on digital i have rebought on digital and typically for a buck or 2 each.. in fact, i can't locate my bloody T3 disks no idea where they are, but i've been tempted to grab it off gog too!


But, a side note, did you check your reloaded disk for a patch file that you have to install after the game is loaded?

or here, Fileplanet has the 1.2 patch.. the site is archived, but still has tons of old patches for games

http://www.fileplanet.com/125479/downloa...v1.2-Patch
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#22
(17-09-2013, 03:45 PM)Tropije Wrote: ..., did you check your reloaded disk for a patch file that you have to install after the game is loaded? ... , Fileplanet has the 1.2 patch. ...

Yes, and if there is anything there, I don't see it. Doing it that way would be crazy because they went to great lengths to patch T1 to its final version.

I have on disk a previous edition which is properly patched. I bought "Reloaded" only as a curious artifact; not to rely on for the games. But thank you for pointing out where the patch is available.

My point was (and is) that a purchaser of "Reloaded" who had no background on the games would have no way of knowing that 'Pirate Cove' on that disk is not the latest version.
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#23
perhaps it was an oversite, But for me, this is defiantly not the first time i bought an older game that was not fully patched. I have a drawer full of games i used to buy in the bargain bin at comp usa.. you know when computer stores used to be around, and they sold games on shelves?? I can't believe that was 10 years ago..

I don't really think of it as a big deal though, I've been downloading patches since i started computer gaming.. though originally it was on a 14.4 dial up modem and a 2 meg patch to like an hour lol..

I would hope they remedy this issue though if they do another printing of reloaded disks..
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