For the record:
I'm a non-denominational Christian..but even I know this is just a game and the stuff within is not to be taken seriously.
People who freak out over videogames give the rest of us a bad name.

Calithorne Wrote:Well, from what I can tell, at least half of all gamers are gay/lesbian so maybe that's why computer games are so gay friendly nowadays.

Please post a link to where you get your stats otherwise.... I guess the other half of all gamers are catholics then.

LusciousPear Wrote:This thread can only be ended by the final argument:

"No u"

Wrong! 'No U'

Calithorne Wrote:Nowadays, that's not possible. Everytime I turn on the TV, they're talking about gays. Gays this, gays that, gays, gays, gays.

Stop watching the Gay channel if you don't want to see it. I believe you have to pay for that channel anyway so... Ummm....

Calithorne Wrote:You're stereotyping religious people if you think we know nothing about evolution. Most of us are not Bible-thumping fundamentalists. Most of us know the world wasn't created in seven days. Most of us know the world is not 6000 years old.

Get out and meet some real people before you make judgments about them.

Please come preach at my local church, because they still preach the world was created in 7 days, and the people that knocked on the door yesterday were indeed holding their bibles and thumping it with their thumbs. The last thing my local church will preach is evolution, dinosaurs were a work of the devil if you ask our preacher and most of the congregation. By the way I did give a donation to them before they left, funny they didn't want it for some reason. Must have been the whole thing of that gay movement that write on their money "gay money" that I keep at the front door for just such donations.

Syntax! Wrote:

Quote:Most of us are not Bible-thumping fundamentalists.

But a lot of you are door knocking bible pushers!

Amen, sister-freind!
LOL

Oh and IN BEFORE THE LOCK WHOOT!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will fight to the death to defend your freedoms, freedom to be who you are, freedom to do as you like as long as you don't impose your freedom on others.

"Most of us know the world wasn't created in seven days. Most of us know the world is not 6000 years old."

Not very good Christians(or Catholics? Eh, oh well) then, eh?
lawl

First of all, you guys need to get it together. This thread asks a simple question: why do priests and bishops marry in Tropico?

I don't care whether this is a simulation, a game, or a weeknight drama on TV: priests and bishops don't get married. Unless the idea is a comedy to poke fun at the Church, this is a simple fact and finds representation in most things real or fiction. I'm with Cathilorne on this point - the game ought not to have bishops and priests getting married unless it's specified that 1) the churches in Tropico are not Catholic and 2) we then act under the assumption that it is Catholic in appearance but is really the "Church of Tropico" in comparison with something along the lines of the Church of England.

Beyond that, drawing connections between why it's wrong that gays CAN get married but bishops and priests can't just misses the whole point. And to assume that Haemimont introduced the new feature to please 'the gays' is almost ridiculous. Speaking as a gay person, I want a game to work, not pander to me or the community I'm in. I know they didn't, however, because to do so would be asinine. It was simply to add more flavor to the game and I seriously doubt was intended to piss anyone off or make anyone giddy.

Although I do take notice of arguments about how we (gays) are "forcing" ourselves onto straight people in what does amount to a crusade for full legal equality in the United States, I also realize that it's not hard to be accepted when you're a member of a majority and I ask anyone that is mainstream to consider such a difference in perspective. That's all I'm going to say though because I have serious problems with using a computer game as a proxy for a political/religious debate.

And lay off the Catholics. Not like any other group is better or worse in attributes and flaws.

not sure if this is going to work but if it doesnt ill just rewrite but this is what i said elsewhere about this issue and im sticking with it.

orinsul Wrote:because the cabaret is dancing, and satirical songs and skits in ridiculous costumes. What it is in the game is what it was before it degenerated as the game starts in the fifties, it wasn't about sex but was a very popular form of theatre, the intellectual answer to the music halls. There is no reason for women not to go into it.

As to the priests getting married as i see it, their not preists. because any highschool graduate can become some, they are people hired by the state to run the church in thr absence of a priest. i cant remember the term for it, but it is an acknowledged institution although admittedly only during wartime or other times when a parish cannot be supplied by a priest. we had one for a while where i live when the priest was off sick, its in latin anyway so even if i did remember it i wouldnt be able to spell it.
What i think should be done is that a priest should be supplied by the vatican depending on your relation with the religious faction or you could hire own yourself as a foreign expert if the faction didnt like you enough and he would be a dedicated priest that would leave the island if he lost his job, and the same with Bishops. there should be a different system to handle them anyway. you dont just go the church and apply for the job of a priest, once you are qualified and tested you are sent to your parish by the Church. It would make the politics with the religious faction and maybe though events Rome itself a little more challenging.

And American Protestantism and all that crazed far right ultraconservative nonsesense has nothing to do with Christianity and especially not of the Church. There is nothing incompatible between evolution and Christianity which is why most of the leading minds in the study of the science of evolution are themselves Christian. Catholicism is wide, the very word itself means Universal.

orinsul Wrote:And American Protestantism and all that crazed far right ultraconservative nonsesense has nothing to do with Christianity and especially not of the Church.

You're about as convincing as leftists trying to distance themselves from the brilliant track record in human rights and economy of the Soviet and Soviet-backed regimes.

(edit) I'm voicing my personal opinion here, not an official position of Haemimont Games - and being a programmer, not a game designer, I didn't make any of the decisions related to the topic of the thread. Don't make me register another account in the forum just to be able to speak up on interesting subjects, please :-)

assen Wrote:I'm voicing my personal opinion here, not an official position of Haemimont Games

That doesn't mean that you're suddenly not Haemimont's CTO anymore when posting on this forum

assen Wrote:Don't make me register another account in the forum just to be able to speak up on interesting subjects, please :-)

People will most likely see this as the official opinion of Haemimont (and possibly Kalypso's) anyway, so indeed you should better create an anonymous account on this forum if you want to keep your - and the company you're working for - professional status.

I would say something here, but it would probably get me banned.

eagle Wrote:

assen Wrote:I'm voicing my personal opinion here, not an official position of Haemimont Games

That doesn't mean that you're suddenly not Haemimont's CTO anymore when posting on this forum

assen Wrote:Don't make me register another account in the forum just to be able to speak up on interesting subjects, please :-)

People will most likely see this as the official opinion of Haemimont (and possibly Kalypso's) anyway, so indeed you should better create an anonymous account on this forum if you want to keep your - and the company you're working for - professional status.

How is it unprofessional to voice an opinion when it's explicitly stated that it is not the official stance of the developer?

Maybe kill two birds with one stone.

Change the "Gay Marraige" Idict to "Bishops are allowed to get Married".

It is odd why the Bishops cannot get married since the Bible states that is "not good for man to be alone". Even Adam got Eve (or Steve if your gay.) lol

They do offend Cathlics in this game; since if you make fun of Koran, they kill you.

I don't see why it would be such a big problem to fix that. Just assign everyone some random number between 0 and 1 when they appear. If below 0.1 => make tropican gay.

If newemployee.isGay==true
disable priest job. (or add some flag at the employee check for the church)
end

If they can regulate gender for certain jobs, they can easily regulate this. It's a 15 minute fix, at most

There are openly gay priests IRL.

Short answer: maybe they are not catholic?

You don't even know if they are christians or not. They might be part of some religion called Tropicians

Maybe the possibility of making an edict about the matter would add a little more fun to the issue?

This is something that deserves serious discussion but all of you ignore any discussion of ways for it to work in the game in order to lower yourselves to pathetic and narrow-minded insults which only display your own ignorance and weak jokes about the queers.
If El Presidente passed an edict that bishops could marry do you think that would matter. Its not the laws of the nation that prevent it, under national laws bishops can already marry they dont because of the vows of the cloth it has nothing to do with what comes out of the rulers mouth unless he ordered all of them to marry under penalty of getting shot if unwed.
As i said before [#35] Priests should be handled differently than the other works, unable to shift job [except possibly between bishop and priest] and should be supplied from outside the island and leave if there is no job for them. Its the only way that makes sense. Priests arnt highschool educated locals they are trained in seminaries off island and sent by the church not the nation.

Fidel Astro Wrote:I don't see why it would be such a big problem to fix that. Just assign everyone some random number between 0 and 1 when they appear. If below 0.1 => make tropican gay.

If newemployee.isGay==true
disable priest job. (or add some flag at the employee check for the church)
end

If they can regulate gender for certain jobs, they can easily regulate this. It's a 15 minute fix, at most

I'm almost sure that the entire Tropico series have been made in C++ and maybe some C.

I guess every Tropican has it's own class, keeping it's own information (like gender, family, job, home, etc). It would be as easy as pie to check if the Tropican who wants to work at a certain building (in this case the church & cathedral) is a gay person or not.

I don't know what the marriage code looks like, but I guess it's just a pool of people which can be married with. Removing priests and bishops from this pool (or not even adding them) would fix this.

Everyone happy now?

Poro- Wrote:Short answer: maybe they are not catholic?

You don't even know if they are christians or not. They might be part of some religion called Tropicians

Heck, they might even be satanists! That black robe and giant hat do look a little fishy.......

Lol, that was just some pseudo code. No specific language. But yea there must be some variable regulating if a person is gay or not. But I guess they make people gay after the edict has been issued, and not before.

Fidel Astro Wrote:Lol, that was just some pseudo code. No specific language. But yea there must be some variable regulating if a person is gay or not. But I guess they make people gay after the edict has been issued, and not before.

The process of not allowing priests and bishops to be(come) gay is actually the same as not allowing them to marry.

eagle Wrote:I'm almost sure that the entire Tropico series have been made in C++ and maybe some C.

I guess every Tropican has it's own class [in C], keeping its own information (like gender, family, job, home, etc). It would be as easy as pie to check if the Tropican who wants to work at a certain building (in this case the church & cathedral) is a gay person or not.

Of course I don't know about T3, but I'm fairly sure that the T1 unit data file which has the prototypes of units is not structured in "C" format.

orinsul Wrote:As i said before [#35] Priests should be handled differently than the other works, unable to shift job [except possibly between bishop and priest] and should be supplied from outside the island and leave if there is no job for them. Its the only way that makes sense. Priests arnt highschool educated locals they are trained in seminaries off island and sent by the church not the nation.

Why do you want to lock the game so much? If priest are special it mean more micromanagement and less flexibility. And with no benefit other then "its realistic", it just distracts from the game mechanics.

CoconutKid Wrote:

eagle Wrote:I'm almost sure that the entire Tropico series have been made in C++ and maybe some C.

I guess every Tropican has it's own class [in C], keeping its own information (like gender, family, job, home, etc). It would be as easy as pie to check if the Tropican who wants to work at a certain building (in this case the church & cathedral) is a gay person or not.

Of course I don't know about T3, but I'm fairly sure that the T1 unit data file which has the prototypes of units is not structured in "C" format.

I don't know if that's true, but if it is, the "prototypes" had to be loaded/processed by the game. And the game is programmed in C++.

If you don't know what C++ is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B (its NOT a format. its a programming language!)

God you ignorant fools and your gay-bashing. dig a hole and lay in it. god = a lie; your life = pointless; tropico 3 = a game. so keep your own religious views to yourself and shut the fk up. play the game or do not. do not cry and btch because you can except people for who they are. people like you fk up the futures of our children. grow the fk up.

Poro- Wrote:Short answer: maybe they are not catholic?

You don't even know if they are christians or not. They might be part of some religion called Tropicians

Poro nailed it.

Can anyone show that the developers have stated that the religion of Tropico is Roman Catholic?

As pointed out, it could very well be the Church of Tropico, with the Prez as leader and "Defender of the Faith."

Professor_Goat Wrote:so keep your own religious views to yourself and shut the fk up.

And this is democracy? What are you even doing on this forum if we aren't even allowed to discuss the game and its features here (according to your views)?

I recommend you to shut up

eagle Wrote:If you don't know what C++ is: it's NOT a format. It's a programming language!

In my bumbling stupidity, I have encountered the concept of Programming Languages. Wildlife Biologists have the saying, "You can tell the species by the feces."

I suspect that the geeks have a saying, "You can tell the language by the format."

Be that as it may, you can jeer at me all you wish. While I can't "crack" the game engine, I can make some simplistic "mods" to T1 using nothing more than Cobol modifications to "Table Look-Up Files."

But thanks for the suggestion that some or all of the T1 engine may be in C++ language.

Lyubo_Haemimont Wrote:As Coconut Kid pointed out, a citizen can change his work many times during the game and if we add that restriction there will be a lot of weird situations to handle that will damage gameplay. The idea was considered but was rejected.

I modestly thought that was a rather definitive answer.

If I may suggest, computer game players should become familiar with the phrase: SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF.

Suspension of disbelief or "willing suspension of disbelief" is a formula devised by the poet and aesthetic philosopher Samuel Taylor Coleridge to justify the use of fantastic or non-realistic elements in literature. Coleridge suggested that if a writer could infuse a "human interest and a semblance of truth" into a fantastic tale, the reader would suspend judgment concerning the implausibility of the narrative.

The phrase "suspension of disbelief" came to be used more loosely in the later 20th century, often used to imply that the onus was on the reader, rather than the writer, to achieve it. It might be used to refer to the willingness of the audience to overlook the limitations of a medium, so that these do not interfere with the acceptance of those premises. According to the theory, suspension of disbelief is a quid pro quo: the audience tacitly agrees to provisionally suspend their judgment in exchange for the promise of entertainment. These fictional premises may also lend to the engagement of the mind and perhaps proposition of thoughts, ideas, art and theories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_belief

el_malo Wrote:

Poro- Wrote:Short answer: maybe they are not catholic?

You don't even know if they are christians or not. They might be part of some religion called Tropicians

Poro nailed it.

Can anyone show that the developers have stated that the religion of Tropico is Roman Catholic?

As pointed out, it could very well be the Church of Tropico, with the Prez as leader and "Defender of the Faith."

it's pretty obvious that they are roman catholic. even the papal visit edict hints at that.

Quote:it's pretty obvious that they are roman catholic. even the papal visit edict hints at that.

It could be a visit by the pope of the Cao Dai.

The one in Rome is not the only pope.

take a look at the image representing the papal visit edict.

but if you want to keep thinking it's not, then go ahead. i am not going to force you into thinking its catholic.