Tropico 1, Builder talk
#1
I am wondering about builders, and think i have stumbled onto something.. Building new construction offices, and then placing buildings near it, the workers appear to be leaving their old place of work and moving into this new location closer to the "job"

Am i interpreting this behavior correctly? While some workers seem to be reluctant to change jobs, most seem eager to make the move right away.

Perhaps swapping to "easy does it" on the new building, and swapping to "sweat shop" will help persuade the ones that aren't making the move fast, with out taking more drastic means that take bigger happiness hits like firing, or lowering wages..

that said, Any thoughts on how long those effects linger? I would think being fired would be a larger hit and last longer, But honestly a lot of the inner workings of t1 are a bit of a mystery to me.
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#2
(05-08-2013, 02:58 AM)Tropije Wrote: I am wondering about builders, and think i have stumbled onto something. Building new construction offices, and then placing buildings near it, the workers appear to be leaving their old place of work and moving into this new location closer to the "job"

Am i interpreting this behavior correctly? ...

Any thoughts on how long those effects linger? I would think being fired would be a larger hit and last longer, ...

If I understand what you are describing correctly, I have never noticed any such effect. Indeed, unless you have conditions very closely controlled - the people taking up jobs in the new construction offices may not be the same people leaving the old construction offices at all. Do you verify names?

Being fired from a job when there is a practically identical job immediately available in the same kind of building is hardly a hit at all.
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#3
I have been playing with the builders more...

It does seem like many did move, but only when the office is far away, and perhaps the job was just much closer to where they were living.

reading thought bubbles, I found something that said,, My new job is much closer to my home than my old one.


My biggest issue is later in the game buildings just seem to build so much slower.. I'm starting to wonder if i need tons more builders than i previously used..

Walking far seems to be something you don't wan't.. i often watch them walk a ways, and see um dig twice and then quit. Even with roads, but for some reason they don't stick to roads even if there is one right next to the office.


It is hard going from the cars of t3-4.. makes things so much easier to get going.. Wink
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#4
The people spend a limited period of time in the work mode. The time they spend walking to their employment building and - in the case of the Laborers - from the Construction Office to the construction project site is part of the work mode. In other words, walking time is deducted from the potential shoveling & pounding time. This means that the distance from the Construction Office to the construction site is a critical issue.

On their own initiative, people will move closer to the building in which they are employed IF there is closer, suitable housing. They differ in their personal inclination to build a shack just to move closer to a work building. In the case of Laborers, they consider the Construction Office only and NOT the buildings placed for construction.

In an interview given shortly after Tropico was published, Phil Steinmeyer (head of PopTop) talked about the construction priority system. Somehow, this interview did not receive wide attention among the players, nor did the information get published in the various guides. The ordinary priority is:
  • First - within 25 tiles of the Construction Office
  • Second - between 25 and 50 tiles from the Construction Office
  • Third - between 50 and 75 tiles from the Construction Office
  • Last (or lowest) - beyond 75 tiles from the Construction Office.
Changing the arrows on the display for a building under construction can override this to some extent - if the number of buildings is limited.

The practicality is that the priority system is meaningless beyond 100 tiles from the Construction Office. That is because the walking time required so reduces the pounding and shoveling that nothing meaningful is accomplished.

Quote:My biggest issue is later in the game buildings just seem to build so much slower. I'm starting to wonder if I need tons more builders than I previously used.

Nothing about construction changes with the passage of time. If you are placing a greater number of buildings with no increase in the number of Construction Offices + their Laborers, completions will seem slower. You are expecting more work from the same sized workforce. Is that your problem?

Quote:..., but for some reason they don't stick to roads even if there is one right next to the office.

T1 roads are completly different; they have no effect on path-finding. The player has to figure out where the commonly selected path is, and then mark it for paving. But that is a completely different topic.
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#5
How big is a tile?


Basically what i'm talking about, is when you place something farther away, it is like they just walk up, take a couple wacks with a hammer, then it's quitting time.

really trying to figure out how to grow the island later in the game.. i really have a tough time after i hit about 300 people
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#6
(19-08-2013, 06:07 PM)Tropije Wrote: How big is a tile?

The game does not have a "hard" scale; its scale is "floating" in the art work. This generated a complaint about T1 and was one of the major rationales for the major changes in the art work for T3.

Visually, the tile is a square in the the green grid. The 100 tile distance provides general guidance as to the length of time an individual normally takes to exhaust his\her work mode.

(19-08-2013, 06:07 PM)Tropije Wrote: Basically what I'm talking about, is when you place something farther away, it is like they just walk up, take a couple wacks with a hammer, then it's quitting time.

Exactly! That is, if they even make it that far. If it is even further away, they will stop part way there, turn around, and go home to sleep. Of course, there are variations among the different kinds of work. But the Construction Laborers are the easiest to observe to learn about the "normal" or "practical" limitations on how far Tropicans will walk.

(19-08-2013, 06:07 PM)Tropije Wrote: Really trying to figure out how to grow the island later in the game. I really have a tough time after I hit about 300 people.

The game is based on a symbiotic relationship between people and buildings - but you know that. What you probably don't realize is that the game has a "soft" population limitation of ~500 people. So at about 300 in the later game, people stop falling out of the sky. I don't understand how you are defining "grow the island" because from 300 to 500 uses the same basic techniques as from 100 to 300 - except applied more thoughtfully.
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#7
growing the island, meaning filling the island space.. it seems like i get my first 20-30 buildings in a decent time, but later game.. i have way more builders, yet the rate they complete jobs seems to go way down..

for example, i added 2-3 construction sites right near the build for 3 hotels, and a spa, nightclub, and gourmet restaurant. i already had 3 other offices around the island. I swear i watched these buildings take 10-12 years to go up.. In early game 10 years i can toss up 20-30 easy buildings.

but 500 people for a soft cap? i did not know about that.. so something to keep in mind i suppose.

Later game, how many construction offices would you recommend?

builders are still giving me fits in t1.. i do great with small islands.. but trying to get a big island going is really a task..
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#8
(22-08-2013, 06:41 PM)Tropije Wrote: growing the island, meaning filling the island space. ... I get my first 20-30 buildings in a decent time ... later game I have way more builders, yet the rate they complete jobs seems to go way down. ...

I must admit that I have never closely observed the overall operation of more than 3 or 4 Construction Offices with lots of simultaneous construction going on all over the island. So I lack some information on certain aspects of your issue.

First: It seems obvious, but I need to cover it even if it is elementary. Time for construction is different among buildings. So in the early game, it is likely the emphasis is on simpler, quickly built buildings. In the later game, the emphasis shifts to more complex buildings which take longer. The process has two distinct steps: "A" leveling the site and "B" the actual "wacks" (aka construction points) on the building.

"A" involves a numbers of "shovels" which can be predicted only in very general terms. Nearly level sites take few; steeply sloping sites take many. Small footprints take fewer than large footprints.
"B" is a preset number for each building. A table abstracted frrom the bldg.dat file has been published at the Cafe. For example: Spa = 80, Nightclub = 250, Hotel = 180, Luxury Hotel = 320.

Second: The workers' daily lives may change from early game to later game -- because the services have not kept up with the growth in numbers of and\or location of the workers. You have now grasped the concept of having Construction Offices close to your growth projects. Have you brought the service buildings along so the workers don't have to walk far to them? The only "mode" which deducts walking time from the core activity is the "work mode." The other "modes" simply take longer to cover the walking; therefore, the work mode comes around less and less frequently.

Lastly: I can not be sure how multiple Construction Offices react to multiple projects. Depending on the specific pattern of Offices vs Projects at the tick when a worker is assigned, you may have a situation in which some \ many \ most workers are not being used efficiently. The game does not track: how many workers are assigned to a specific project, or what other Offices are doing. If an Office has no project close to it, it may assign workers to a far away project which is coincidently closer to another Office. This kind of positional matrix is difficult to monitor by "eye-ball."

I hope these few more thoughts are helpful.
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#9
you know, i never thought about building a church/clinic near new construction.... perhaps i will give that a try.. spreading out churches/clinics, along with perhaps some more lower end entertainment..

thanks for the idea!
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