FritoPatata's Transportation Guide, Roads and Garages for the Masses
#61
(22-12-2009, 06:19 PM)TropicoJoe Wrote: I have started to se a ringroad system, where I put down huge concentric circles of roads and then link them with a thoughroufare to connect then, worked like a dream.

Yea its what I do too. I got the idea from my city we built a ring road for semi trucks to avoid going through the city so much. Ever since I use ring roads my traffic is WAY better. But you have to plan it out from the start.
Online Challenge: Oil Rush has a day 1 starting population 425. Its the largest map ever created, and has over 24 oil fields. Its on page 2 of the online challenges.
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#62
Completely viewed the flickr album... Its so detailed and well planned.
The view from the mountain top was awesome
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#63
Great job on this!!!! Simply amazing job with the flicker picturs and info!!!

Thanks!
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#64
Wow... this really helped me out bud!!!
I have been hooked on this game since I got it from steam and your thread has really helped me out, especially starting out! Thanks again! You rule!!!

Cool
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#65
Sticking this thread up there. Reason: Sheer awesomeness.
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#66
[font=Trebuchet MS]That guide blew my mind. Kudos to you sir![/font]
[font=Tahoma]"Be England what she will. With all her faults, she is my country still."
Charles Churchill[/font]
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#67
(04-01-2010, 01:55 PM)Timo Wrote: Sticking this thread up there. Reason: Sheer awesomeness.

That is the best reply to a forum post I have ever received from an admin!

Usually it is something like "please stop posting, your ramblings mean nothing here." Big Grin

Honored to have my post stickied up top for all to see!
My first act as El Presidente... Throw the Radio DJ off an oil platform with his feet in cement.
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#68
To be fair, I should have stickied the thread a long time ago, but everytime I checked it was so popular that you could always find it on the first page of the forum anyways.
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#69
Even following a bunch of the advice here, I ended up with a major chokepoint in the game I'm playing now. It is a T intersection where the main artery is my outer loop road. The intersecting road comes from my main services and high class housing area. I was getting 10-15 car backups on the services road and 8-10 on the outer road. Then I threw in a modified traffic circle and presto, no traffic! It was really a half-circle diversion on the outer loop road that bypassed the intersection. Since most of the traffic on the outer loop road wanted to go straight, they would do two rights and speed right on through. A traditional traffic circle might also be useful in some situations....
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#70
Great info. i'm going to try it your way
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#71
(17-01-2010, 05:32 AM)currierm Wrote: Even following a bunch of the advice here, I ended up with a major chokepoint in the game I'm playing now. It is a T intersection where the main artery is my outer loop road. The intersecting road comes from my main services and high class housing area. I was getting 10-15 car backups on the services road and 8-10 on the outer road. Then I threw in a modified traffic circle and presto, no traffic! It was really a half-circle diversion on the outer loop road that bypassed the intersection. Since most of the traffic on the outer loop road wanted to go straight, they would do two rights and speed right on through. A traditional traffic circle might also be useful in some situations....

This is an excellent point. I have done this in a few scenarios where it seemed that most of my traffic was all headed in one direction. You can create smaller "loops" along your outer rings in non-residential areas, that will help ease congestion where you are forced to have an intersection.

Still, if you were only seeing a 10 car backup, that is pretty good. At very high populations (600-700+) backups are fairly unavoidable.

I'd like to see a screenshot or two of your work if you'd care to post them. Big Grin
My first act as El Presidente... Throw the Radio DJ off an oil platform with his feet in cement.
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#72
Thanks Frito !! This and your photo album were very useful.

One important point needs to be mentioned (I may have missed it). At some point, bigger concentrations of population is counterproductive and will result in massive traffic jams, no matter how well laid out the road network in that small area may be. To avoid traffic jams, disperse population concentrations to spatially separated "villages" By that I mean separate your housing/heavily-used-entertainment concentrations into dispersed clusters on the map.

Adding one more block of housing to that complex may result traffic jams while placing a new housing complex in another location will avoid it.

One time I made the mistake of adding a sports complex into my pre-existing entertainment zone and had instantaneous gridlock rofl.
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#73
Thanks FritoPatata for so much great information, this is just a great guide.

I am still wondering though, why you think you absolutely need big loops and few intersections in the road system. Kind of questioning your number one assumption to get some new ideas here. Wink

Obviously, stops in front of buildings, stops due to pedestrians or intersecting cars slow down the whole traffic system.

What I tried (worked, but only for very small island population so far, I will still try it on bigger islands) is building the island in such a way that cars predominantly do right turns. For example your teamsters going from their home to the office to the raw material production facility and to any kind of factory/dock. If you manage to build them in a way that they only have to take turns to the right, no matter where they go (that is making the whole traffic on the island asymmetric, the production cycle a huge counterclockwise architecture) you should not end up with to many stops on the road and almost no left turns/straights. Traffic should then also speed up a lot.

One crucial thing is for example that garages have to be built on the "right hand side" of the road. Sounds silly, because depending on how you look at your island, obviously there is no left and no right side. But if you know a priori where the cars are heading that are leaving your garage (say garage in the farm district and you know people will either go back home or to the factories) you manage to avoid left turns this way. A garage itself becomes a huge intersection point because people heading the district where the garage has been built will leave the district without ever choking an intersection, although they did not travel on a loop / circumferential road.

This way, you could even build a whole district (connected to only one garage or two) like a farming area in the middle between two other districts without generating intersections with nasty left-turns or straingt heading cars.

Obviously, with 5 teamster offices, 20 farms and 10 factories it becomes more and more difficult to design the city architecture in such a way, because you do not precisely know which appartment has to be connected to which office, to which farm, ...) but with a little bit of practice the idea should be scalable, this thing thus being a general alternative to what you suggested (big loops, as few intersections as possible).

But - I admit - although easy to realize for populations say up to 200...300 still to be proved for "big" cities.

Thanks again Frito, your guide is just awesome!
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#74
(08-11-2009, 09:29 PM)Pinstar Wrote: Take the example of a factory at one end of the island, an apartment complex on the opposite end (priced so the worker can afford it) and a tenement right in the middle of the island. When the factory worker gets out of school and takes their job, they are more likely to take up residence in the tenement, even though they can afford the apartment, due to the distance. However, as long as the factory has road access, the worker will take the apartment before building a shack if the tenement isn't an option.

It is only if the factory is far away from any road will the worker ignore housing and build a shack next to the factory.

I have this going on on a map right now and I don't see this to be true. I've got a distant mine with a garage beside it and apartments and tenements with open space beside a garage. The miners seem to prefer to live in shacks beside the mine rather than move to the tenement or apartment. Even though they could afford both. I even destroyed the shack and they built a new one. Both garages are fine. No overload messages. I ended up having to build country homes for them out there beside the mine to get them out of the shack.
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#75
Love the loop system. I used a giant city loop for the Metropolis challenge, and had over 700 happy people living inside one big loop, without a single road penetrating the interior. Roads radiating from the loop to all parts of the island. By the end, I had an outer "loop" of sorts, made up of segments between each radiating road. The outer was not a true loop however, as the intersections were offset at the radials to avoid 4-way intersections.
I did end up opening one end of the inner loop toward the end game to relieve congestion by forcing traffic in the area to the outer loop, worked great.
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#76
(23-02-2010, 09:44 PM)Presidente Gerardo Wrote: Best Finish to Date-

5th place- Land of the Llamas
17th place- Metropolis
Keep on playing those online user missions, they really make this game worthwhile Smile
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#77
I agree Hightoy, adds loads of playability hours. I like that scores are posted so you have some bragging rights to shoot for. My rankings won't hold for long, I'm sure, as other competitive players knock me down the list. Lots of challenges to choose from, and more all the time. It may be a long time before I get back to my flight simulator.
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#78
Your guide is valuable but I think it's just useful for a medium and big sized island only.
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#79
(26-02-2010, 05:16 AM)Little Dragon Wrote: Your guide is valuable but I think it's just useful for a medium and big sized island only.

That is the intent yes.

If you're making a transportation guide, it is relevant only to a place where there would be transportation issues and congestion.

You would not see this in a small island, therefore it is not amazing useful.

However, you could scale it down to where it was.
My first act as El Presidente... Throw the Radio DJ off an oil platform with his feet in cement.
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#80
your guide is useful and insightful. but little dragon is right mainly used for large scale islands and for serious city planners.
Oops brain fart um......................damn it......................... what the hell was that noise?...........................HOLY SH@#!!!
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#81
First off I want to thank you for the dedication you gave in starting and maintaining this post. I believe you have single handedly cleared up a lot of transportation frustration issues with newbies to this game. I raise my glass to you and decree that rum & cokes hereafter be called RumPatatas.

I do not disagree with your analysis about the benefits of loops. I just wanted to chime in with a few things that seem to help the traffic on my islands.

I'm a city designer that likes to have a downtown city center square surrounded by a road with dwellings around the outside of the road and then another ring road around the dwellings (call it a donut plan). This city center is where the religious, medical, entertainment and markets are located. Usually I make it large enough to be able to support two of each building. This means that usually there are 3 or 4 garages within this circle. Then I radiate an access road off of each corner of the square that lead out to the outer ring and from there to industrial areas.

As long as you have long enough road segments between the garages and the intersections and long enough radials to the outer ring traffic jams are at a minimum with only small choke points occuring downtown. Of course as the population grows beyond 400 people having dispersed villages outside of downtown is usually desireable to decrease traffic flow to the downtown area. Besides it looks more natural to a bigger island to have self-sufficient villages at some distance from the downtown area.

All of this is in keeping with your ring theory.

My difference comes in an area that would usually require a 4 way intersection. While I try to avoid these like the plague, sometimes they are a necessary evil due to resource placement or dock locations. So instead of a 4 way intersection I build a large traffic circle instead. By large I mean the size that would easily allow you to place a powerplant in the center of it. With 4 radial roads leading from it the 4 individual road segments of the circle are usually large enough to hold 4-6 backed up cars each.

What I discovered is that the circles dramatically cut down in traffic jams by allowing cars making right hand turns to travel through them quickly. I've never had any big traffic jams within the circles themselves and the radials are usually pretty clear also. A secondary benefit is that I can place building that have their own garage (like newspaper, armories, Teamster offices, construction offices, powerplants, etc.) inside the circle without impacting traffic flow.

I've started using this system of circles on medium and larger islands with great sucess with populations of 700+. Once again your loop theory is in action but with a little different look.

Hope this helps other get ideas of how to reduce the Tropican Road Rage due to traffic jams. Now if we could only the those little old ladies with walkers to stay home and off the streets. Maybe home delivered FritoPatatasRolleyes
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#82
Frioto that is one hell of an island, i was looking at the photos and one of the maps in the campaign is similar to this. I built my island almost exactly like yours without even seeing the guide. However, i never really created and upper class zone, and i put my stadium and tourist zone on the highest plateau and the airport on my old iron mine. Your map is better oriented b/c my stadium was making a negative profit. I still havent quite figured out optimum placement of tourist, and entertainment buildings, but clearly you have.

Good guide, and a very pretty island.
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#83
(24-03-2010, 06:03 AM)snappyfingers Wrote: Frioto that is one hell of an island, i was looking at the photos and one of the maps in the campaign is similar to this. I built my island almost exactly like yours without even seeing the guide. However, i never really created and upper class zone, and i put my stadium and tourist zone on the highest plateau and the airport on my old iron mine. Your map is better oriented b/c my stadium was making a negative profit. I still havent quite figured out optimum placement of tourist, and entertainment buildings, but clearly you have.

Good guide, and a very pretty island.

Thank you, Snappy.

That island actually is one of the campaign islands and not a custom one (If I remember correctly, it is the one about some Tropicans being stuck in their old outdated ways, so you have to expand carefully in order to not spurn to much of a rebel population.)

I wanted to use an island that was relevant to typical game scenarios as opposed to an island that is perfectly flat and can be designed however you want.

Just by the way, to everyone, I will be updating this guide to apply to the expansion once it is released and I buy a copy!
My first act as El Presidente... Throw the Radio DJ off an oil platform with his feet in cement.
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#84
As of today, the guide has received over 20,000 views!

This makes it the most viewed thread ever on this site that was not created by a forum admin or developer.

Fellow forum posters, through my years of presidency... I have received your gratitude my compañeros, alas, I am nothing but a humble servant. You are MY masters, MY employers. I would like to extend my gratitude to the constructive critics, who help me to refine this guide through their valued suggestions and their kind words for the benefit of Tropico. Yes there are problems, there will always be problems, especially in the current board organization situation! The lack of proper subcategories, about which I hear so much these days, is one of them, and it WILL be resolved, in time, as the forum popularity stabilizes.

My election promise: An updated guide addressing the new gameplay in the Tropico 3: Absolute Power expansion!
My first act as El Presidente... Throw the Radio DJ off an oil platform with his feet in cement.
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#85
That was honestly a brilliant guide, especially for your first ever post.
You must have spent ages on it, well done!








(i dont know how to get a signiture, so, here it is...)
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#86
Great guide!! And I must disagree with those that say that it's for medium/big islands only. Just by applying the basic principles (avoid intersections, try to make a loop, garage placement) I've experienced a big boost in my little islands in the campaign.
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#87
(21-04-2010, 12:09 PM)redScare Wrote: Great guide!! And I must disagree with those that say that it's for medium/big islands only. Just by applying the basic principles (avoid intersections, try to make a loop, garage placement) I've experienced a big boost in my little islands in the campaign.

Exactly. It's like most guides of whatever, they give you an example and it's up to the player to adapt it to fit the island they are working on. Since no two maps are the same (well they can be) we must adapt the basic principles to the map we are playing.

Much like I've been playing OpenTTD lately and have been reading the wiki that shows me different layouts for the rails, and on a "perfect" map I could duplicate the layout, however on a random map it couldn't be done without some seriousl terraforming, much the same as in Tropico 3, it would have to be adapted for the environment.
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#88
Very nice guide, this has helped me speed up my city efficiency greatly!

Planning from the start is always my biggest challenge. I like my Palace to be the center of my city, but often I can't plan well enough to keep it that way in the later stages of the game.

(22-04-2010, 07:13 AM)City Builder Wrote: Much like I've been playing OpenTTD lately and have been reading the wiki that shows me different layouts for the rails, and on a "perfect" map I could duplicate the layout, however on a random map it couldn't be done without some seriousl terraforming, much the same as in Tropico 3, it would have to be adapted for the environment.

If you like OpenTTD, I suggest you check out the OpenTTD Co-Op. They are a group of players who work on the same map at the same time. I use to play with them a few years back, and the games are a lot of fun. Thousands upon thousands of trains running on the same highly tuned network.

I won't post the link here because it's probably against the rules, but they are easy to google Big Grin
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#89
president patata i just want to show my gratitude to u and your guide. it has shown me all the errors of my presidency. i bow down to u. plus i think the colors are koolTongue
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#90
(30-03-2010, 09:48 PM)FritoPatata Wrote: Fellow forum posters, through my years of presidency... I have received your gratitude my compañeros, alas, I am nothing but a humble servant. You are MY masters, MY employers. I would like to extend my gratitude to the constructive critics, who help me to refine this guide through their valued suggestions and their kind words for the benefit of Tropico. Yes there are problems, there will always be problems, especially in the current board organization situation! The lack of proper subcategories, about which I hear so much these days, is one of them, and it WILL be resolved, in time, as the forum popularity stabilizes.

My election promise: An updated guide addressing the new gameplay in the Tropico 3: Absolute Power expansion!

Frito, your guide was invaluable to me! I'd pretty much given up on some scenarios, until I found your awesome guide here.
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