A Tropican Constitution
#1
First thing i would like to do is to thank Kalypso for a great game. Tropico has given me many hours of enjoyable gameplay, and without doubt, will give me many more.

The level of micromanagement and direct contact with the citizens is something I find really fascinating about the game. The edict system is pretty good for molding the islands laws, but i was wondering about the possibility of making it deeper.
What I would like to suggest for the upcoming Tropico 4 is the ability to establish a constitution for the nation. In following the player could add all sorts of references and laws into it regarding the status of citizens, for example: freedom of speech or the restriction of speech, equality of all or privledged citizens, state religion or free religion, laws protecting private ownership or the abolishment of private ownership, how often elections are held, references to god (or not) and etc.. Having a constitution would give a liberty bonus, depending on it's content.
I in fact must say that it is way to easy getting a high liberty score in the game like it is now.

#2
(05-12-2010, 10:25 PM)Democriss Wrote: First thing i would like to do is to thank Kalypso for a great game. Tropico has given me many hours of enjoyable gameplay, and without doubt, will give me many more.

The level of micromanagement and direct contact with the citizens is something I find really fascinating about the game. The edict system is pretty good for molding the islands laws, but i was wondering about the possibility of making it deeper.
What I would like to suggest for the upcoming Tropico 4 is the ability to establish a constitution for the nation. In following the player could add all sorts of references and laws into it regarding the status of citizens, for example: freedom of speech or the restriction of speech, equality of all or privledged citizens, state religion or free religion, laws protecting private ownership or the abolishment of private ownership, how often elections are held, references to god (or not) and etc.. Having a constitution would give a liberty bonus, depending on it's content.
I in fact must say that it is way to easy getting a high liberty score in the game like it is now.

El Presidente approves of this suggestion Smile . I want to see that in Tropico 4 and maybe an edit anthem option with similiar effects
#3
Honestly, what's the point?

"Let El Presidente make a Constitution, so that he may piss on it."
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#4
(09-12-2010, 04:13 AM)IronFist Wrote: Honestly, what's the point?

"Let El Presidente make a Constitution, so that he may piss on it."
Haha, yes.... that sounds even more pleasing. Do just like what America is doing.

#5
GENIUS. ABSOLUTE GENIUS.

It'd be written at the start, like when you choose your Presidente and your traits, right?

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Also, to the comment about El Presidente disregarding it, that makes it all the more realistic. Many modern day politicians won't let a silly piece of paper get in their way. Why should the infallible EL PRESIDENTE do the same?

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I would like to add, though, that if Presidente does an Edict or makes an action that violates parts of the Constitution he selected, it should have a greater negative impact than if it was not unconstitutional.

Also, there should be an option on whether or not Presidente is allowed to break it. Allowing disregard of the document has no initial issue, but negative effects are worsened if it's done.
If you choose to bind Presidente to the Constitution, all "banned" items from said Consitution are disabled (unless the scenario/campaign demands it), but respect, liberty soar and the negative effects of what is still legal are lessened a bit.
Jesus loves you and died for you!!
---

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#6
How about regarding private property, We have 4 forms of ownership. Direct Workers Control/Direct Socialism, Statist Socialism, State Capitalism, Market Capitalism.
#7
(31-12-2010, 05:30 PM)TurtleShroom Wrote: Jesus loves you and died for you!!

That's all well and good, but I feel no need to drink his blood and eat his body to acknowledge his attitude toward me. He's a nice fellow, but I don't care to take a shower with him.

#8
To keep the peace this comment was deleted by the poster.
#9
Quote:
(04-01-2011, 07:51 PM)CoconutKid Wrote:
(31-12-2010, 05:30 PM)TurtleShroom Wrote: Jesus loves you and died for you!!

That's all well and good, but I feel no need to drink his blood and eat his body to acknowledge his attitude toward me. He's a nice fellow, but I don't care to take a shower with him.

(04-01-2011, 08:02 PM)Tropico Bob Wrote:
(31-12-2010, 05:30 PM)TurtleShroom Wrote: Jesus loves you, and died For You.

So you say. I'm an atheist, but I don't shove my beliefs on other people, like religious fanatics do. Your link in your signature is listed as "Not Found".


Ugh; this happens every time I join a forum, so I'll say it once more.

What exactly does my signature, the Eucharist, and my personal belief in Christ have to do with a Tropican Constitution? I'm not "shoving" my beliefs at you by simply saying that Jesus loves you. "Shoving" my beliefs would be coercing you to convert or go to Hell, or linking you to some religious site.

My link (now fixed) directs you to my Suggestions for Tropico thread. :|
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#10
To keep the peace this comment was deleted by the poster.
#11
I'm not out to debate religious views. I've been through enough of that online to know better than to attack or even defend in most cases.

I've put "Jesus loves you" in my signature for years, and I don't plan on halting that because people disagree with it.
I place that phrase in every signature due to deeply rooted moral values and an episode in my life that I consider to have divine connections (and therefore, won't clog this forum disclosing).
I disagree with your disbelief in God, but I'm here to talk about Tropico, and I don't really care that you're atheistic.

Internet witnessing can not be done actively. I must be passive and respectful, in hopes that someone would see Jesus through my works.

I am not here to save your soul ajnd I certainly won't waste any of your time converting you, or trying.

I'm here to discuss my all-time favorite computer game, and I'd be honored to collaborate alongside a senior member as yourselves.
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#12
To keep the peace this comment was deleted by the poster.
#13
(04-01-2011, 08:37 PM)TurtleShroom Wrote: Ugh; this happens every time I join a forum, so I'll say it once more.
What exactly does my signature, the Eucharist, and my personal belief in Christ have to do with a Tropican Constitution? ...

I can't speak for TropicoBob, but I just happened randomly to to pick this thread to express my view\belief in response to your mechanical repetition of your belief.

I don't mechanically repeat myself. I wonder why you bother (although I know why - you are enjoined to do so) when you know you can rely on a negative response.

If you can repeat your belief mechancally with every post, why is it so up-setting when someone calmly sets out - one time - a different approach or attitude? You are not required to answer me. I wish no theological debate; only a single counter-point to a constant mechanical drum-beat.
#14
(04-01-2011, 09:23 PM)CoconutKid Wrote: If you can repeat your belief mechancally with every post, why is it so up-setting when someone calmly sets out - one time - a different approach or attitude? You are not required to answer me. I wish no theological debate; only a single counter-point to a constant mechanical drum-beat.

I would honored to be answer you, because you have very wise questions and a very respectful means of asking them, and no, this will not be a debate on the existance of God. I think He exists, you do not, and that isn't my business when I am online, especially on a forum of a T-rated game. Now is not the place or the time to Witness.

Questioning my signature isn't really what would upset me. It's pestering me to take it down: something you didn't do but instantly assumed you would.
See, I immediately jumped into my usual assumption that the next thing would be "THIS OFFENDS ME TAKE IT DOWN NOW OR ELSE", so I got defensive. I should not have jumped to conclusions as I did, and as such, I apologize.

I act on a whim frequently and am very impulsive,and I can say asomething stupid before looking into the facts, resulting in a mess I must clean up. It's a character flaw that has got me in hot water quite often, and hopefully, it won't put me on bad ground with you.
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#15
(04-01-2011, 09:47 PM)TurtleShroom Wrote: I act on a whim frequently and am very impulsive,and I can say asomething stupid before looking into the facts, resulting in a mess I must clean up. It's a character flaw that has got me in hot water quite often, and hopefully, it won't put me on bad ground with you.
Now your signature I'm sure I, and others can live with, but the quote below your User-Name... "Your Resident Holy Man, and Censor" is a bit over the top. Now you tell me that you're not pushing your religious beliefs on us, or me if it makes you feel better. You give the impression that you somehow rule over us as to our conduct & morals. This is what I consider 'Bible-beating' us. Most of your postings seem to have religious over-tones. You should be mature enough to know when to post these suggestive remarks, and when not to. It turns many people away, and only enforces their doubts toward religious people, and religion in general. In a public forum over-tones like this can, and usually do spark some heavy, and harsh debates, arguments, resentments, and of course hard feelings toward one another. I know you're young, and don't realize the impact these topics have, but they do just the same.

Wisdom is to know when, when not, and why, as to both. Wisdom can not be taught, yet it can be learned from experience, and experience is the best teacher. Hence the expression "He's a wise old man".

Taken from Websters' dictionary:

Definition of CENSOR
1: a person who supervises conduct and morals: as a : an official who examines materials (as publications or films) for objectionable matter b : an official (as in time of war) who reads communications (as letters) and deletes material considered sensitive or harmful
2: one of two magistrates of early Rome acting as census takers, assessors, and inspectors of morals and conduct
3: a hypothetical psychic agency that represses unacceptable notions before they reach consciousness
#16
(05-01-2011, 05:40 AM)Tropico Bob Wrote: DEFINITION OF CENSOR:
1: a person who supervises conduct and morals: as a : an official who examines materials (as publications or films) for objectionable matter b : an official (as in time of war) who reads communications (as letters) and deletes material considered sensitive or harmful

Yes, that definition (especially what is bolded) fits me to the letter.

My user title is an inside joke that only people on a certain website would get. There is another website that I actually help run, and that is the job I hold. I'm the censor. I didn't mean that I'd dictate your morals, I just put it there for laughs.

However, due to the choas that happened around here, I'll be more than willing to change that.



UPDATE: All righty, I changed it. Thank you for the heads-up.
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#17
It's the word CENSOR that I, and other people may take the wrong way. Your are NOT the CENSOR here, unless I missed something. I'm a Moderator of several sites/forums, but I don't use the word Moderator/Administrator here.

It may be something personal, or a joke for you, but not here. Don't portray yourself as something you're not on this forum, or any other that you don't control as a Moderator/Administrator.
#18
(06-01-2011, 01:23 AM)Tropico Bob Wrote: It's the word CENSOR that I, and other people may take the wrong way. Your are NOT the CENSOR here, unless I missed something. I'm a Moderator of several sites/forums, but I don't use the word Moderator/Administrator here.

It may be something personal, or a joke for you, but not here. Don't portray yourself as something you're not on this forum, or any other that you don't control as a Moderator/Administrator.

While I see where you are coming from, is it not ridiculous that you fight over words? While I hate the ideal of communism, I also know people who are die-hard communist. Does that mean I hate or fight with them? No, I may disagree with them, but that does not mean that I should take offense and be rude.

I see it the same way with Creationism vs. Evolution/Atheism. I myself believe in creationism, but I do not take offense if people say they are atheist. If I didn't, I might as well be offended that you wear a green shirt because I dislike the color.

This is my reasoning behind simply not being offended. Everyone is different. So the whole debate in my eyes is just like another form of racism. NOT to say that it is racism, just that they are similar in that you say one is better than the other.
#19
You have missed the point entirely, but I will not debate it further. You're compariing apples to oranges.
#20
(06-01-2011, 01:10 PM)Tropico Bob Wrote: You're compariing apples to oranges.

But they're both fruit... Tongue
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#21
(06-01-2011, 07:30 PM)IronFist Wrote:
(06-01-2011, 01:10 PM)Tropico Bob Wrote: You're compariing apples to oranges.

But they're both fruit... Tongue

lmfao

You've got a point.
#22
(05-12-2010, 10:25 PM)Democriss Wrote: First thing i would like to do is to thank Kalypso for a great game. Tropico has given me many hours of enjoyable gameplay, and without doubt, will give me many more.

The level of micromanagement and direct contact with the citizens is something I find really fascinating about the game. The edict system is pretty good for molding the islands laws, but i was wondering about the possibility of making it deeper.
What I would like to suggest for the upcoming Tropico 4 is the ability to establish a constitution for the nation. In following the player could add all sorts of references and laws into it regarding the status of citizens, for example: freedom of speech or the restriction of speech, equality of all or privledged citizens, state religion or free religion, laws protecting private ownership or the abolishment of private ownership, how often elections are held, references to god (or not) and etc.. Having a constitution would give a liberty bonus, depending on it's content.
I in fact must say that it is way to easy getting a high liberty score in the game like it is now.

I Completly support you. Go FREEDOM!
#23
I can see that alot has been going on on this thread since I last checked Tongue

But on the subject: the idea was that making the constitution would be an optional event, sort of like enacting an edict ingame. I feel it should be optional since once it is enacted, the game will become harder. Breaking an amendment from the constitution will indead have consequences, for an example:
El presidented desides to nationalize a private company, but by doing so he is breaking against his own constitution, that protects private property by law. The effects of going against the constitution will be a drop in respect from all factions by 20% exept from the loyalist's(they don't care about the constitution) and in this case the communists(since it involves private property). Capitalist respect will drop even more, or by 30-40%. Liberty will also fall.

There will be two possible way's to get this through however without getting such harsh penalties.
One is to get a special exeption from the amendment ,backed by all your ministers. The only effect will be a temporary 10% decrease in respect from the Capitalists(5 years maybe).
The other one is simply to rewrite the constitution, but that should in no way be easy. It could be done by two means; by having a nation wide vote, where tropicans decide IF it should be changed OR remain untouched. If factions that are discontent of the constitution have majority, el presidente is free to do with it like he pleases.
El presidente could also just decide to rewrite it without anyones permission, but going that road will however mean an absolut 100% chance of a uprising and increase of rebel activity.
#24
(23-01-2011, 03:44 AM)Democriss Wrote: I can see that alot has been going on on this thread since I last checked Tongue

But on the subject: the idea was that making the constitution would be an optional event, sort of like enacting an edict ingame. I feel it should be optional since once it is enacted, the game will become harder. Breaking an amendment from the constitution will indead have consequences, for an example:
El presidented desides to nationalize a private company, but by doing so he is breaking against his own constitution, that protects private property by law. The effects of going against the constitution will be a drop in respect from all factions by 20% exept from the loyalist's(they don't care about the constitution) and in this case the communists(since it involves private property). Capitalist respect will drop even more, or by 30-40%. Liberty will also fall.

There will be two possible way's to get this through however without getting such harsh penalties.
One is to get a special exeption from the amendment ,backed by all your ministers. The only effect will be a temporary 10% decrease in respect from the Capitalists(5 years maybe).
The other one is simply to rewrite the constitution, but that should in no way be easy. It could be done by two means; by having a nation wide vote, where tropicans decide IF it should be changed OR remain untouched. If factions that are discontent of the constitution have majority, el presidente is free to do with it like he pleases.
El presidente could also just decide to rewrite it without anyones permission, but going that road will however mean an absolut 100% chance of a uprising and increase of rebel activity.  
I like this idea.
#25
You don't just bump a 4 year old thread without adding anything to the discussion. Closed.




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