Hello all,

This weekend I d/led the Disciples III demo on steam and enjoyed what brief play session it allowed. Being a long time fan of the Heroes of Might and Magic series, I wanted to know whether or not this would be recommended.

I know the game hasn't sold well and the critic reviews have been very low. And the demo itself didn't convince me to immediately buy the game as it was far too short. With that said, can someone give me the pros and cons and compare it to my beloved HoMM series (which definitely has plenty of it's own faults).

It's on sale right now for $7.50 on steam. A pretty good deal, though money is very tight right now.

The only thing that was disappointing to me was the lack of races. 3 races for multiplayer seems limiting. Anyways I look forward to the responses!

What you saw of the demo is pretty much what you'll see throughout in terms of mechanics.

Disciples has become more HoMM like as the series has evolved. Walk your Heroes around an overland map killing creeps for XP. Go into tactical battle and duke it out hurling spells and positioning of your untis.

However, it is still fundamentally different in a number of ways:

- Units are single dudes, not squads. So you can heal back to full after the fight.
- Units gain experience, not just your hero. As you do, they level up to new tiers.
- Cities don't spawn a fixed number of troops per week. Instead, you buy as much as you can afford (keeping in mind that you don't want to spread out too much so as to prevent your main army from getting XP in order to level up.)

These may seem like small things, but it greatly effects the way the game plays imo. I prefer it. Some don't though.

With all this said, Disciples is incomplete at the moment. The expansion was just released in Russia, featuring the Undead race. It will release internationally in the new year. There is also the Mountain Clans (dwarven) race being planned too.

There is no multiplayer at present.

Also, the game lacks maps except for those by the community - which are getting pumped out, but it still pales in comparison to other games released.

The campaign, imo, is broken. The power of your hero after a few chapters make him a one man wrecking machine. So battles become monotonous (single player maps however are not bogged down by this problem and are more fun because of it). The story is ok, but the translation at times is a bit wonky (english publisher localization fault).

There are still quite a few nasty bugs in the base game too.

The AI is pretty bad too. I've seen worse, but in strategy games the AI should be a redeeming factor, not something that is meh.

So, my opinion, if money is tight.. wait it out unless you were really hooked in by the demo.

For the record, I love the game. I'd still buy it today, but I'm hardcore with the series. The art direction is exceptional. The combat is fluid, quick yet tactical enough to make me kewl with doing it over and over again. The balance between strategy and RPG feel in a gothic world is spot-on. It just needs some more love to make this game worthy for the masses.

Wabbit,

That was a very thorough response and I very much appreciate it.

While playing the demo, I did notice the one-man units which I actually preferred. And I also like the idea of leveling up that one unit to something more powerful. Gives you an incentive for keeping him alive.

The lack of multiplayer is disappointing. That's too bad about the campaign. I love the fact that your hero gets his own skills and stats. That was yet another feature that I thought exceeded HoMM.

Is Online Multiplayer planned in the future? Also, what is the purpose of the Guardian? I wasn't able to use him in the demo.

Thank you for your honest review of the game!

No probs Detrimus.

I should add that with the campaign - people have enjoyed it more by purposely gimping themselves. You can hire other leaders in the campaign and use them. They start off at level 1, and you can re-hire old leaders from past maps at mid-level as well. So.. there are ways to circumvent the broken'ness of the campaign. As well, I am sure there are people out there who enjoyed it as is too.

Yes, multiplayer is planned. You can currently play hotseat with a friend, but you need to be working on the same PC. I heard network multiplayer is top on their list and may even make it into the next patch, which at this point is for the Russian version of the expansion that just came out.

Also, since you mentioned that you enjoyed the skill and stat growth your hero gets in the campaign.. this occurs in the single player maps too. It is actually a decent system for the most part, and because you don't get to too high a level (due to it being just one map) it forces you to be more selective on the path you take.

And yeah.. I prefer D3's single units getting XP and levelling up as opposed to HoMM's 'just buy your pre-made upgraded units at the city' approach. Can't say I'm a fan of how HoMM has weekly spawns at cities either. It means that whomever has the most cities has the significant edge. Which I guess is realistic in a way, but I found the mechanic to be a bit too much. In Disciples, the win factor is based more on your parties experience level, which means you must earn your power by fighting. Cities in D3 are still important - they give you income, act as a place to heal, lets you deploy new units deeper in the field, visit the shop for supplies, etc.. But the nice part is, you can win with one city in your control if you're smart on the battlefield.

About Guardians - you'll notice in D3 every time you start a new turn the land changes around your cities and mana nodes you control, and starts to spread outward. It turns into your factions 'theme'. Resources like mana nodes, gold mines and stone quarries are not controlled by clicking on them. Instead, the land beneath them must be of your faction's type. The Guardians are ways for your land to spread. The holes in the ground they are placed in are usually located nearby resources, so they ensure you get those. But the more Guardians you have, the more your land spreads and the more resources you'll have to work with. Guardians also have a view-distance, so they serve as sentries keeping an eye on enemy activity nearby too. Enemy Guardians must be defeated in battle in order to free up the hole for you to put yours there. Guardians get XP in battle, but they also get XP every turn - so you want to keep them alive, and they get pretty powerful. They have 3 levels of growth. You can also assign friendly units to garrison Guardians as well.

One last thing I didn't mention.. D3 is incredibly moddable. Skim around these forums and you'll see a booty of tweaks and alterations to the stats, skills, spells, costs, etc.. So if you encounter something in the game which you feel is out of whack, it is really easy to go in and change it up.

Hope that helps.

Wabbit,

Yet again, incredibly informative post!

As enjoyable as HoMM was for me, it had some really big flaws. First and foremost were the length of the games. 95% of the games played were never finished (in regarding to online battles). I remember one of the very few completed battles me and friend played, lasted 8+ hours! Worst of all... by the time you and your heroes finally meet up the game is over in a fraction of the overall time spent in a single battle.

You also mentioned the unit re-population of HoMM and I agree that is another flaw. The logistics of resupplying your army whilst on the battlefield is such a nightmare. Granted they added caravans which helped with that but still...

I do like the concept of Guardians that sounds quite impressive. Though that wasn't what I was referring to. I suppose I used the wrong term, but I was wondering about the 4-winged Angel who resides in the castle. Or perhaps they are one in the same? Does he function like the ones out in the map that secure territory? Is he different in any way?

The more we talk about the game, the more I want to buy it. I think I just might!

In HOMM II, III & V you have always the same units, while in Disciples you often can choose your unit tree. It´s much more motivation. Also the guardians in DIII are a good idea, as well as a lot of neutral units. The graphics and music is more filigree than the almost comic-book-like graphic in HOMMV. Since Disciples III, HOMM is dead for me. (Except HOMMIII and IV which I play very rarely.)

D3 is one of those "hate it or love it"-games, pretty much for reasons already mentioned.

However, as a fellow HoMM fan, I absolutely recommend you to get Disciples 2. It has much more depth than D3, both story and gameplaywise, and it looks good for a game released in 2002. AFAIK the Gold Edition, with all three expansions, in on Steam for 10$.

(22-12-2010 12:26 PM)Clayman Wrote:  D3 is one of those "hate it or love it"-games, pretty much for reasons already mentioned.

However, as a fellow HoMM fan, I absolutely recommend you to get Disciples 2. It has much more depth than D3, both story and gameplaywise, and it looks good for a game released in 2002. AFAIK the Gold Edition, with all three expansions, in on Steam for 10$.

The same game can be found on GOG, fully patched and DRM-free for 4.99$: Click Here
They also have Disciples Sacred Lands for 4.99$, also fully patched and DRM-free: Click here

One has to wonder why D3 would be so many steps backward from the second one O.o

(22-12-2010 07:16 PM)Detrimus Wrote:  One has to wonder why D3 would be so many steps backward from the second one O.o

Well, backwards in some areas (such as diplomacy) and forward in others, e.g. graphics. I think most of the negative issues have to do with limited resources for development.

(22-12-2010 09:24 AM)Detrimus Wrote:  I do like the concept of Guardians that sounds quite impressive. Though that wasn't what I was referring to. I suppose I used the wrong term, but I was wondering about the 4-winged Angel who resides in the castle. Or perhaps they are one in the same? Does he function like the ones out in the map that secure territory? Is he different in any way?

Ah, yes those are different. They reside in your Capital and cannot leave it. You can garrison units (not leaders) to them to form a defending party. They are exceptionally powerful units compared to the rest of your troops. Just the guardian alone can take on a full mid-level party. So.. they are more of the spider that sits in your web waiting for the enemy to come visit.

They are a cool mechanic, and actually another defining twist compared to HoMM. In HoMM, I find you often have to send your main Hero running back at the sign of an approaching army. Though realistic, I find it annoying. In Disciples, you don't have to concern yourself with this as much. Your capital is a safe haven until the end-game.

And yeah, what Clayman said. D2 is better and if you're just getting into the series and are cool with dated graphics, it is superior in terms of gameplay. Having said this, it plays different. It has more strategy on the adventure map but less tactics in battle. You don't have the HoMM battleboard concept, as units don't move during the fight. But you have thief units that play a cool harasser role on the main map, plus rod planters let you decide where you spread your land. There are also boats, and it comes with a whack load more units. It has more expansions under its belt, and hopefully D3 gets there and does better as it gets more support. It certainly has the potential.

If you love the elves campaign in Disciples 2, the Gold version isn't enough. There's an expansion I've only seen on Amazon called Rise of the Elves Gold that's not included in the regular Gold version. It has a high level mini campaign which is really great considering the original campaign feels too short. The DVD version may not work, so I suggest buying the original CD version. Disciples 2 Gold otherwise has expanded campaigns for the other races. Rise of the Elves Gold may crash on you on one level, just use a cheat that grants infinite movement and complete it. It's a problem but doesn't stop you from getting to the final scenario which is very big and grand. The Elves high level campaign on the final scenario is the only high level campaign that allows infinite leveling of your leader! The other high level campaigns in the regular Gold edition let you gain several levels per scenario but sometimes you have to wait a whole map before the cap is removed. But it's still great fun.

(23-12-2010 05:52 PM)D2 Mod Player Wrote:  It has a high level mini campaign which is really great considering the original campaign feels too short.

I didn't even know that. Is it implemented as a custom saga?

Guys I have a question that I'm sure gets asked a lot but didn't find anything when I searched.

How exactly does the leveling up of your army work?

For instance, I have a squire who just hit level 2. Upon reading the barracks it seems that he needs to be level 5 before he transforms into a knight, seeing as the knight is level 5. However when I build the barracks he gets transformed into a knight at level 2 thus bringing him to level 5. Okay well... that's fine and dandy but how does the rest of it unfold? When he becomes level 6 (i.e. levels up for the first time as a knight from 5-6) can he undergo his next iteration as a Imperial Knight?

Continuing: I have an apprentice who just hit level two. I built the Library and he didn't turn into a Mage. Now this has me really confused. So basically how do I know when a unit has "enough experience (as denoted in the manual)" necessary for alteration?

Yeah, they make it confusing.

Levels in D3 are meant to represent the unit's power in relation to one another. As a unit levels up, the power gain they get is exponential, as opposed to arithmetic in other games. So.. the devs use a level 1 dinging to level 5 as a more representative way of measuring the power difference between these units. But technically.. level 5 just means level 2.

So your Squire, when it dinged, didn't actually become level 2. It became level 5. And the Barracks requirement triggered, so you got your Knight.

When the level 5 Knight dings, he becomes level 13 (I think). Which is the requirement for the Stables or whatever the structure is called to get your Imperial Knight.

So the pathwork is still linear with respect to dinging and structure upgrades, it's just more of a visual indicator of power.

Its a cool concept on paper, but it is flawed because Leaders level up arithmetically (level 1, level 2, etc..) but are just as powerful, if not more, than units of comparative dinging.. if that makes sense.

The reason why your Apprentice didn't upgrade to the Mage is because you built the Library after you levelled up. All you need is 1 experience point to trigger the Library, and he'll upgrade to his new robes. So, it is best to have the structure pre-built, so when the unit hits the experience needed to ding, it also gets the upgrade automatically.

(23-12-2010 06:52 PM)Clayman Wrote:  

(23-12-2010 05:52 PM)D2 Mod Player Wrote:  It has a high level mini campaign which is really great considering the original campaign feels too short.

I didn't even know that. Is it implemented as a custom saga?

Yes, it's a custom saga. They went overboard on the amount of versions of the game to the point where nobody could keep track of them all.

(25-12-2010 06:08 AM)D2 Mod Player Wrote:  

(23-12-2010 06:52 PM)Clayman Wrote:  

(23-12-2010 05:52 PM)D2 Mod Player Wrote:  It has a high level mini campaign which is really great considering the original campaign feels too short.

I didn't even know that. Is it implemented as a custom saga?

Yes, it's a custom saga. They went overboard on the amount of versions of the game to the point where nobody could keep track of them all.

The thing I didn't like about the custom saga, is it gives you about 3 level 18 leaders at the outset. One of every type except the rod planter. These leaders actually have 7 more skills available than the highest leader you can level yourself. Its because it gives you the 15 skills to assign to each leader, plus they already have all 5 wards, earth, fire, water, air and mind and maxed leadership from the outset. So they are uber OP.

I also felt it suffered like all the expansion campaigns in that it plays to easy. I always felt D2 was best thru the first 4 acts and then the leader was way OP. Yea there are work arounds, but the add on campaigns often were the easiest of all.

The best way to do the Elf custom sage is with a rod planter.

If I remember correctly. The custom saga is 4 missions long and 3 of the 4 missions are already in the original as single missions. They just strung them together and added a new one at the start.

Target stores used to sell both D2gold and RotEgold together for $10. Maybe they still do.