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19-01-2011, 03:16 AM
(This post was last modified: 19-01-2011, 03:18 AM by Tropi'je.)
(17-01-2011, 01:17 PM)chris@realmforge Wrote: Personally, I like to add that as soon as the editor is released this whole point might become irrelevant.
now that is reasuring news.. and a big thumbs up to adding an edditor ! Does this mean we can create our own missions? 
im not a big fan of the extra content with catches. For example recently, cryptic did this with startrek online. there must of been 8 different bonus items you could get depending on where you bought. BUT in the end they let all the items be obtained through digital downloads most of them only costing a buck or two which really was a good move on their part on making players happy. I have zero problems with DLC's. I get to pick and choose what i pay for as extra add-ons.
I get game retailers want to give people incentive to buy the product through them, thats capitalism right? But at the same time i dont like the idea of being forced to pick only that retailer to get some goodie.
If game companies continue to do this, i really hope for the sake of the game, and the players that these bonus items atleast are available for DLC, or included in "extended eddition" at a later date.
I dont like the perception that you cant ever get something unless you pre-order, or buy from X store. Who knows, maybe in 5 years someone will find a gem of a game and then only to be put off that they are missing some nice bonus content just cause they didnt get it earlier.
I guess im just an old gamer,, that has gotton use to going to the store, buying a game either pre-order, the day it comes out, a few weeks, or even a few years later.. and having the knowledge that im buying everything i can possibly get on one disk.. (outside expansions, or patches i must DL)
I really hope companies dont move from that model.. it would be a really sad day in PC gaming
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Personally I love Steam, I love that I no longer have Game boxes cluttering my room and it's nice to have all my games in one clean library.
I definitely do understand why people wouldn't like it because the games are unsellable of course, that's never bothered me because the only games I've sold were really bad titles like Spore. And I don't think it's a good value to pay so much for a title and only receive a fraction of your money back when you sell it.
As for Romtos stating that he'll never buy it I think that's just silly and over dramatic. Kalypso surely makes more money by selling it on Steam because they don't have to produce physical copies, so they naturally want people downloading through Steam instead. But it's your money and you can decide how to spend it.
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Just a question but people keep mentioning reselling games here. I thought you could not resell PC games anyway? For like 15+ years now almost all PC games have been tied to a CD key. That's why the store wont accept returns they don't know if you used the key. An how would anyone else? Unless it was my trusted friend selling it to me I wouldn't ever buy a used PC game. So I do not understand this complaint against Steam that you can't resell...
As for the Euro pricing thing it would be interesting to know who is actually to blame for the unfair price difference. Steam has always said its the publisher that decides. An indeed I know of several examples of the publisher of a game lowering the price of the Euro version on Steam after getting complaints. With these past examples to go on i'm inclined to believe it isn't Valve demanding it be more expensive outside the US.
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(19-01-2011, 03:49 AM)Krubin Wrote: Personally I love Steam, I love that I no longer have Game boxes cluttering my room and it's nice to have all my games in one clean library.
I definitely do understand why people wouldn't like it because the games are unsellable of course, that's never bothered me because the only games I've sold were really bad titles like Spore. And I don't think it's a good value to pay so much for a title and only receive a fraction of your money back when you sell it.
As for Romtos stating that he'll never buy it I think that's just silly and over dramatic. Kalypso surely makes more money by selling it on Steam because they don't have to produce physical copies, so they naturally want people downloading through Steam instead. But it's your money and you can decide how to spend it.
interestingly enough, the pros you mention (no cluttering, a clean, well arranged library, I'd add offsite backup of all your games, availability exactly on launch, no limited availability) are true for other digital distributors (at least for impulse, I'm not actually sure about the rest, as I haven't tried them yet), while the cons are steam-only (impulse allows to resell (yes, even with a key), I'd add the gun-to-your-head DRM).
I think THATS why people have a problem with steam. While others prove its possible to be nice to their customers and make money, steam still doesn't change its politics and treats its customers like the most depraved criminals. innocent till proven guilty? no way! they should prove they're innocent by only playing games with steam running & looking over their shoulder, talking to headquarters over the net.
In the end, I think its a question of preference. some people don't mind the restrictions of steam and like it quite well. some don't. I just think it's not a good practice to force customers to use steam with steam-only specials or just get an incomplete product. yes, for dungeons it might only be a map, which won't matter much after the community has made 100s of maps with the editor, but shows the complete disregard to customers choice of distribution and for the next game it might be worse. one day we buy a full-priced game retail without any content.. to be sold separately.. and only steam has it, but the community can make new content, so its ok..
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(18-01-2011, 09:58 PM)admin Wrote: Where have you lived the last twenty years or more?
I.e. Why is the price for an ipad in us dollar 499 and in euros also 499? Just one example.
Different markets, different currencies, taxes, and prices etc etc etc...
(18-01-2011, 04:57 PM)damos Wrote: the eu-version is more expensive than the us-version (+20 euro).
what have i done to offend Kalypso/Realmforge?
sorry, it wasn't intended to be euro-born.
I am sorry, but your price isn't even equal price, EU price is 67% more expensive than US price.
EU price: 49.99€ ($66.55, £41.77, 67% more expensive)
UK price: £29.99 (35.88€ , $47.99, 20% more expensive)
US price: $39.99 (30.00€, £24.99)
iPad is product of Apple and they have to deliver physical it around the world, iPad cannot be downloaded.
But this is digitally distributed game we are talking about, there is no retail DVD's or no cases that need to be print extra for EU. It is simply a download. So 67% higher price is not really fair...
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(19-01-2011, 09:39 AM)slay Wrote: UK price: £29.99 (35.88€ , $47.99, 20% more expensive)
Agreed on the point of higher cost however I think I can account for the UK price difference.
We have a 20% VAT rate in effect so that explains the extra 20% on UK cost. I don't think the US pay VAT do they?
As for the 67% difference in Euro, that I can't think of a valid reason for unless there are numerous other taxes applied. However I wouldn't think so as the developer is German (I think Kalypso are too?) and it would affect the price of the retail boxed version also (which as far as I know isn't the case).
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19-01-2011, 10:03 AM
(This post was last modified: 19-01-2011, 10:11 AM by Walt.)
Ipad was just an example. And do you really think shipping dozens (or just one) container with thousands of ipads to germany would cost more than two max three euros per pad?
You always have different prices for different markets. I.e. Amazon uk sold Dungeons for two days for 17,90 uk pound, which was an amazon special price and amazons decision, not ours. In some countries/stores it is cheaper in other stores/countries the price is higher because of taxes, the strenght of the economy, the usual average price for such a product in this country etc etc etc etc... That is reality for all products (cars, televisions, clothes etc). Thats the way it is and it is an endless (and senseless) discussion and thus our last official comment on this issue.
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(18-01-2011, 09:58 PM)admin Wrote: Where have you lived the last twenty years or more?
I.e. Why is the price for an ipad in us dollar 499 and in euros also 499? Just one example.
Different markets, different currencies, taxes, and prices etc etc etc...
so i'll get a physical us-copy from steam with additional shipping fee and country-specific tax?
ok, that explains the higher price.
wait, *cough* ...
you compare the sale of physical products with downloadable products?
well, ok. i'll hide under my 20 years old rock again.
thank you for that really ignorant answer.
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19-01-2011, 11:00 AM
(This post was last modified: 19-01-2011, 11:45 AM by chris@realmforge.)
(19-01-2011, 09:39 AM)slay Wrote: I am sorry, but your price isn't even equal price, EU price is 67% more expensive than US price.
EU price: 49.99€ ($66.55, £41.77, 67% more expensive)
Amazon DE sells it for 39,95 Euros
EDIT: Or was that the Steam pricing you compared?
EDIT2: Yes, ok, Steam ... nevermind ...
AFAIK Steam can set the price, but I'm just a developer.
(19-01-2011, 09:39 AM)slay Wrote: iPad is product of Apple and they have to deliver physical it around the world, iPad cannot be downloaded.
As an offtopic side note: The iPad is manufactured somewhere in Asia. I guess they ship them right to Europe instead of making a stop in America. So this shouldn't be much of a reason for different pricing.
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(19-01-2011, 03:16 AM)Tropije Wrote: now that is reasuring news.. and a big thumbs up to adding an edditor ! Does this mean we can create our own missions?
The editor will not be an official part of the DVD, but we don't see any problem releasing it to the community.. probably after we cleaned it a bit from all the last-minute debug hacks.. 
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(19-01-2011, 10:03 AM)admin Wrote: Ipad was just an example. And do you really think shipping dozens (or just one) container with thousands of ipads to germany would cost more than two max three euros per pad?
You always have different prices for different markets. I.e. Amazon uk sold Dungeons for two days for 17,90 uk pound, which was an amazon special price and amazons decision, not ours. In some countries/stores it is cheaper in other stores/countries the price is higher because of taxes, the strenght of the economy, the usual average price for such a product in this country etc etc etc etc... That is reality for all products (cars, televisions, clothes etc). Thats the way it is and it is an endless (and senseless) discussion and thus our last official comment on this issue.
This is ridiculous. Comparing games to clothes, ipod etc... Developers set the price, and many of them know, that EU people don't want to have overpriced games, so they set fair price for all regions. Then there are others, who don't care and want only money (and after that they're surprised that nobody's buying their games and pirate them instead). Kalypso is trying to be like Activision? They can set the prices like that, because people will always buy COD games, but Dungeons is not COD (and BTW, Dungeons are even more overpriced than COD's!)
So - I'm going to pass Dungeons (and admin's rude behaviour made my decision even stronger)
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19-01-2011, 04:05 PM
(This post was last modified: 19-01-2011, 04:06 PM by DarkSacred.)
(19-01-2011, 03:54 PM)benetti32 Wrote: This is ridiculous. Comparing games to clothes, ipod etc... Developers set the price, and many of them know, that EU people don't want to have overpriced games, so they set fair price for all regions. Then there are others, who don't care and want only money (and after that they're surprised that nobody's buying their games and pirate them instead). Kalypso is trying to be like Activision? They can set the prices like that, because people will always buy COD games, but Dungeons is not COD (and BTW, Dungeons are even more overpriced than COD's!)
So - I'm going to pass Dungeons (and admin's rude behaviour made my decision even stronger)
You have to realise different countries are very different markets. When pricing a product they have a multitude of different things to consider including the countries minimum wage, average earnings, disposable income, market share of their product in realtion to disposible income, taxes, current rates of inflation, strength of the economy, average retailer % cut, shipping costs in the case of a physical product. I could go on and on, its not a simple process of slap on the same price across the board and you're done.
If the price is putting you off so be it don't buy the game and wait for it to go down in price a little. If you don't like the posts from the development/publishing teams so be it.
These forums seem to stink of teenage angst towards "the man", if you don't do what I want, when I want and how I want it the dummy gets thrown out of the preverbial pram, grow up a bit.
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19-01-2011, 05:16 PM
(This post was last modified: 19-01-2011, 06:08 PM by Timo.)
The EUR price point for Dungeons on Steam may actually be a mistake, we are looking to correct this asap.
Also, we are sorry if anything we wrote came off as rude, it's probably just a misunderstanding or a byproduct of us skimming over the thread only very briefly.
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(19-01-2011, 05:16 PM)Timo Wrote: The EUR price point for Dungeons on Steam may actually be a mistake, we are looking to correct this asap.
Also, we are sorry if anything we wrote came off as rude, it's probably just a misunderstanding or a byproduct of us skimming over the thread only very briefly.
Thank you very much 
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i always have a bad day
Price for Dungeons is 44,99 Euros in Europe and 39,99 USD in USA, so it is not 39,99 Euros to 39,99 USD - my fault.
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(19-01-2011, 09:24 PM)admin Wrote: i always have a bad day
Price for Dungeons is 44,99 Euros in Europe and 39,99 USD in USA, so it is not 39,99 Euros to 39,99 USD - my fault.
I guess that I have thank you for lowering price by 5€, but the price is now 52% more expensive than in US.
There is no country that has 50% VAT. Some EU countries even don't have VAT.
You guys are from EU, I am not willing to believe that you don't care about your fellow EU citizens.
Let me remind all of us, that $1 = 0.74€ and 1€ = $1.33
I am sorry, but I am checking out some other Kalypso published games in Steam and find them too having little bit confusing prices.
Patrician IV
US: $29.99
UK: £24.99 (33% higher price than in US - $39.99)
EU: 39,99€ (80% higher price than in US - $53.49)
Tropico 3 Gold
US: $19.99
UK: £19.99 (60% higher price than in US - $31.99)
EU: 24,99€ (69% higher price than in US - $33.41)
Disciples III has almost okay prices, when thinking of VAT and everything
US: $29.99
UK: £19.99 (7% higher price than in US - $31.99)
EU: 29,99€ (35% higher price than in US - $40)
Grand Ages: Rome Gold
US: $19.99
UK: £19.99 (60% higher price than in US - $31.99)
EU: 19,99€ (35% higher price than in US - $26.73)
Crash Time III
US: $19.99
UK: £19.99 (60% higher price than in US - $31.99)
EU: 29,99€ (102% higher price than in US - $40)
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(19-01-2011, 10:28 PM)slay Wrote: Let me remind all of us, that $1 = 0.74€ and 1€ = $1.33
I am sorry, but I am checking out some other Kalypso published games in Steam and find them too having little bit confusing prices.
Patrician IV
US: $29.99
UK: £24.99 (33% higher price than in US - $39.99)
EU: 39,99€ (80% higher price than in US - $53.49)
Tropico 3 Gold
US: $19.99
UK: £19.99 (60% higher price than in US - $31.99)
EU: 24,99€ (69% higher price than in US - $33.41)
Disciples III has almost okay prices, when thinking of VAT and everything
US: $29.99
UK: £19.99 (7% higher price than in US - $31.99)
EU: 29,99€ (35% higher price than in US - $40)
Grand Ages: Rome Gold
US: $19.99
UK: £19.99 (60% higher price than in US - $31.99)
EU: 19,99€ (35% higher price than in US - $26.73)
Crash Time III
US: $19.99
UK: £19.99 (60% higher price than in US - $31.99)
EU: 29,99€ (102% higher price than in US - $40)
I understand what you're saying but what can Kalypso Media really do? They don't control exchange rates and I'm pretty sure they will just set the RRP and its up to the retailer to set its selling price.
If your figures are true I do agree that the pricing looks a little all over the place and especially unfair towards those who are forced to purchase using the euro.
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19-01-2011, 10:53 PM
(This post was last modified: 19-01-2011, 10:53 PM by DarkSacred.)
(19-01-2011, 10:47 PM)Sanjuaro Wrote: You're implying that Kalypso has no control over their own pricing.
Yes and they probably have very little say in the final sale price.
Lets say Kalypso Media have sold 100 game keys to Steam at £10, the buck now lies with Steam to set its own sale price. Kalypso can't do a lot to enforce pricing except the setting of their wholesale price and their RRP. Its why just a few days ago Amazon (who must have purchased a lot of copies of Dungeons for resale) were selling for as low as £17.99
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Regional pricing differs for a variety of reasons. You will find that this isn't exclusive to Kalypso products.
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Steam has no reasons to raise the price by themselves. They have over 1000 games, they don't think something like, this publisher is from EU, let's raise the price for EU users, so publisher sees that there aren't so many customers in EU as is in US. They are too big.
These prices I compared before could be so different, when game price will be lowered, but unfortunately only the US price.
Sample: if US price was $19.99 and EU price was 19,99€, and game price will be slashed by 10, then may happen that only US price will be reduced, so the final prices could be: $9.99 for US and 19,99€ for EU (or other currencies they have too).
I have seen this happen before in Steam.
Kalypso set Dungeons initial EU price 49,99€ in Steam. And now they saw a little mistake and lowered the price 5€, so the price is now 44,99€. In Steam. So this means that Steam is following their price change and not acting by their own.
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19-01-2011, 11:58 PM
(This post was last modified: 19-01-2011, 11:59 PM by JamesX.)
You guys are very strange blaming a company for simply follow market trends.
If the price of 50 still gain net sales in EU Market then that is the price. Why should any company sell cheaper than the "norm" prices for a region?
If you really want to compare prices, why not add the Thiland or Vietnam prices for games on there too? So We (as in all Western Country Inhabitants) can cry foul at being cheated.
Market is the Market. To blame any single company is rather tunnel visioned. If you want to force a change then simply stop buying games at that price. The price will go down. It is the easiest and most readily avalible recourse a consumer have.
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(19-01-2011, 11:58 PM)JamesX Wrote: Market is the Market. To blame any single company is rather tunnel visioned. If you want to force a change then simply stop buying games at that price. The price will go down. It is the easiest and most readily avalible recourse a consumer have.
I am sorry, but I don't see blaming anywhere. I was simply hoping more sympathy and price corrections for fellow EU citizens.
Yes, there are games with more unfair prices and some games that are fair or even unfair for US citizens. But as this is Kalypso forum, it is not decent to talk about other publishers.
I am afraid that lots of people in our community intend to do exactly as you suggest.
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So... why not simply let an American buy the game via Steam for you as a gift (and send him the money via Paypal)? You fault if you give in to those idiotic Euro prices.
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20-01-2011, 03:22 PM
(This post was last modified: 20-01-2011, 03:32 PM by 0cube.)
(20-01-2011, 11:46 AM)Scaith Wrote: So... why not simply let an American buy the game via Steam for you as a gift (and send him the money via Paypal)? You fault if you give in to those idiotic Euro prices.
You sir, made my life complete, I may die now as I now have had everything in my life I ever wanted.
Yeah, why not risk my account with 160+ games in purchasing a gift from America, which is 100% against the SSA. And where do i get a trustworthy person from america in the first place?
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(20-01-2011, 03:22 PM)0cube Wrote: Yeah, why not risk my account with 160+ games in purchasing a gift from America, which is 100% against the SSA. And where do i get a trustworthy person from america in the first place?
It is not against any rules or agreements. You don't risk your account.
It is not allowed to use a proxy to circumvent the detection of your region. That is all.
Steam already has protection against the overuse of this method: You can't gift everygame as often as you want. There is a limit (something below 10).
Bought over 40 games that way. Never had any trouble and even the Steam moderators etc. in the forums say that it is allowed. An easy way to get more than the double amount of games and even without any nasty censorship.
Where to find those trustworthy people? Well, that is up to you. If you don't have people you trust with some bucks in at least every country in the world by now you surely should work on your social skills.
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20-01-2011, 04:11 PM
(This post was last modified: 20-01-2011, 04:55 PM by 0cube.)
(20-01-2011, 03:47 PM)Scaith Wrote: If you don't have people you trust with some bucks in at least every country in the world by now you surely should work on your social skills.
I don't trust people with my quids at all, as I only have a limited amount to spend per month. I am still in high school so I have no big monthly income and most games I got were presents or bundle deals.
Secondly, how should I know any American? When they are online, I am asleep or at school. When I am online same applies for them. I am not one of those 24/7 kids who know people all over the world. I have contacts in the UK, Slovenia and Germany. Thats it.
If they revoke the gift or anything goes wrong and I find my account disabled, I sure won't be happy.
(20-01-2011, 03:47 PM)Scaith Wrote: Bought over 40 games that way. Never had any trouble and even the Steam moderators etc. in the forums say that it is allowed. An easy way to get more than the double amount of games and even without any nasty censorship.
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/sh...?t=1044752
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/sh...?t=1681246
'moderators' do not believe it is allowed and censorship is not something i have a problem live, seeing as i don't live in germany.
(yes, this was a bump, disguised as a double post)
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(19-01-2011, 01:30 PM)imi Wrote: (19-01-2011, 03:16 AM)Tropije Wrote: now that is reasuring news.. and a big thumbs up to adding an edditor ! Does this mean we can create our own missions?
The editor will not be an official part of the DVD, but we don't see any problem releasing it to the community.. probably after we cleaned it a bit from all the last-minute debug hacks..
debugging hacks.. i like the sound of that !
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(16-01-2011, 12:35 AM)Tropije Wrote: I personally find steam one giant DRM, for a game i never will even accually own., i have zero interest in supporting that business model. I have not, and will not buy anything from them. GOG.com on the other hand, is an online store i fully support. I get to DL, and own the game and play off line any time i want, and install on any computer i want.
You just described Steam.
I have my steam account on 3 of my machines, they have the same games installed on all of them, and i can even yank out my net cable and play the same game on all 3.
Steam style distribution is the future, you cant blame company for an ogres choice, sell your game this way or go bankrupt. I personally refuse to buy retail anymore, and exclusively buy from steam, or impulse. these companies arnt going anywhere, and the way draconian style drm is happening for hard media, its only a matter of time before making a backup copy is illegal, and then when your disc breaks / gets lost / scratched beyond use, whos better off?
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23-01-2011, 11:09 PM
(This post was last modified: 23-01-2011, 11:11 PM by Nenjin.)
(23-01-2011, 01:03 AM)Jibekn Wrote: Steam style distribution is the future, you cant blame company for an ogres choice, sell your game this way or go bankrupt. I personally refuse to buy retail anymore, and exclusively buy from steam, or impulse. these companies arnt going anywhere, and the way draconian style drm is happening for hard media, its only a matter of time before making a backup copy is illegal, and then when your disc breaks / gets lost / scratched beyond use, whos better off?
I used to be spooked by Steam too, back before I had any reason to use it. And the number of game communities I've watched since blow a gasket over Steam (and GFWL) integration wouldn't fit on two hands anymore. Now that I've used Steam, I can honestly say it's one of the better things that's happened on PCs in the last decade, for my friends and I.
The funny fact is this. The fanbase for Dungeons that wouldn't buy it because of Steam.....is completely and utterly eclipsed by the amount of Steam users that will buy Dungeons because it's made available there. Probably 10x over. The minute Steam users who enjoyed DKII see this, they are going to be all over it, especially when the game goes on sale.
So those who won't buy Dungeons because of Steam are really just screaming into the wind.
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True that. I'm tired of waiting for Brick and Mortar retailers to bring games to my country late. Why wait when I can get everything in Steam on Day 1 itself? True, you get a box and paper manual, but this days those things tend to clutter around.
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