Why:
The game genre is a strategy simulation game. Tropico 3 was amazing with building your own little island, which I believe was the simulation part. The strategy part of the game should be the warfare. This would be a one of a kind game, combining warfare with a nation building game.

Want List:
-Diplomatic Treaties
*Trade
*Form Alliance
*Foreign Military (Base/Navy/Air-force)
*Declare War (Superpower or near by Island)
*Aid (Money/Resources/Military)
*Purchase Military Items
*Purchase Resources
-Command Military
*Search/Destroy Rebel Command Post
*Secure Building(During Fight)
*Create trench
*Enter (vehicle/Airplane/Trench/vessel)
-Military Airbase
*Transport Helicopters
*Attack Helicopters
*Fighter Jet
*Bomber
-Military Navy
*Submarine
*Battleship
*Transport
-Missile Silos
*Underground Facility
*Holds Nukes/Bio/Regular Missiles
-Research Facility
*Improve Military Effectiveness
*Invent New Vehicles/Airplanes/Vessels
*Military Attachments (Bulletproof vest/automatic turret)
-Warfare
*Watch your forces fight off the AI
-Conquer Surrounding Islands(Resources)
*Need Oil for your vehicles, invade cuba
-Defense
*Wall (Berlin Wall)
*Ocean Mines
*Forts
*Turret Nest
*Anti-Tank Nest
*Fallout Shelter (Protect People)
*Nuclear Bunker (Protect El Presidente)

Other:
-No Time Limit
-Larger Islands, not as big as Cuba but not as small as the ones from Tropico 3
-Warfare can damage buildings and kill citizens
-Destruction of the Land

turning into a wargame would be a different title, not a city simulation.

i understand how much the military should be emphasized. i totally agree with all this, but this is a tropican city builder not an island defender. the military should very much so play a bigger role then they did in tropico 3 but not as much as digging trenches and fallout bunkers. i understand your desire to build and dominate other countries but this is not the game. although a few of this features might be good for the game

I agree the military should have a bigger part (after all its a dictatorship) but i think building air bases and battleships would be too much. I mean, of course, in an ideal world we would be able to create limitless games which could simulate everything, but atm we cannot i think putting this much military centred features into Tropico could destroy what is currently an awesome city builder.

Maybe this could be a expansion Tropico 4: Dictatorship, but for Tropico 4 itself, I believe that the islands should be larger and that there should be surrounding islands that you could interact with.

(17-04-2011 05:33 PM)RGT94 Wrote:  ..., of course, in an ideal world we would be able to create limitless games which could simulate everything, but ...

I think that very nicely summarizes a very primary choice one has to make -- Do you wish to play the game Tropico as:

• It was conceived in the original publication - a simplistic simulation of economics, politics and building?
• A simulation of bloodthursty maniac who practices genocide on his people such as Caligula, Pol Pot or Edi Amin were?
• A simulation of a tiny base on an island which can grow in military power to dominate the world through naked aggression?
  

Then you could possibly consider what the publishers think they can make a profit on.

(16-04-2011 11:14 PM)computertech Wrote:  turning into a wargame would be a different title, not a city simulation.

Agreed. At its core, Tropico is a city builder/sim, not an RTS or war "strategy" game as you suggest. That said, there is MUCH the devs could do, IMO, to improve combat, crime and the conflict/rebels/strategy part of the series.

My ideas on this front:
Your relationship with rebels and foreign powers should be more fluid and evolving, rather than a pop-up event where a random building is attacked and your soldiers stream single file at the enemy.

- Without Generals, Soldiers engage rebels wherever they encounter them (single file, without backup).
- With Generals, Soldiers are led (read: grouped into formation) into battle and therefore stand a better chance of actually winning a fight and losing fewer comrades.
- El Presidente should have bodyguards based on the soldiers that work at his palace. This could perhaps be upgraded once a Secret Police HQ is setup (El Prez gets 2 black suited, sunglassed guards with better training, rather than soldiers). This is far preferred and more sensible than our beloved leader charging at rebels solo with a revolver.
- Rebels should launch a variety of attacks such as car bombings, robberies, all out assaults, kidnappings, sabotage etc.
- To commit the above attacks, rebels can roam Tropico's streets and only El Prez's strong security infrastructure can stop them (police stations with patrolling cops or guard stations - see below).
- Guard Stations should have a patrol radius which guards roam about in. If they encounter rebels or criminals they can detain them.
- Secret Police or even a *new* Military Intelligence Office could be created, which can reveal the location of a rebel encampment on Tropico. El Prez can then evoke an edict or make an attack on the rebel base to eliminate whatever current rebel threat (it would be great to see your Generals lead columns of soldiers into the bush to destroy the rebel threat!)

Also:
- *New* Coast Guard/Navy shipyard should be added which allows El Prez to create a sea patrol. This can deter foreign nation's warships.
- Add a new mechanic where refugees/immigrants arrive at Tropico by floating raft/dinghy (like Cubans!). Without a Coast Guard, these arrivals cannot be stopped (like formal immigrants via Immigration Ministry).
- Pirates! Small (modern) pirate scooners/cutters can become an issue on Tropico's coast (just like rebels on land) and can stick-up freighters or tourist ships/raid coastal industry. El Prez must invest in a navy/Coast Guard to confront and deter these attacks.


These features would add a TON of depth to combat/rebel confrontation and give us, the player, more control to dictate the outcome while also not making it too "strategy" or RTS specific. Thoughts?

(18-04-2011 04:38 PM)CoconutKid Wrote:  

(17-04-2011 05:33 PM)RGT94 Wrote:  

[*]It was conceived in the original publication - a simplistic simulation of economics, politics and building?

If this is true then why can we build military bases, nuclear warheads, foreign military bases, armories, outposts, and engage in warfare with rebels?

I think that the developers wanted to include a military tactic into the game but couldn't because a single island can't handle such a large budget.
BUT:
*If you can interact with surrounding islands, then a military tactic can be put into the game, war ships can be created because you are able to expand you territories among islands, which would increase the amount of resources you have allowing you to increase your budget.

(19-04-2011 03:02 AM)Damian3395 Wrote:  

(18-04-2011 04:38 PM)CoconutKid Wrote:  

(17-04-2011 05:33 PM)RGT94 Wrote:  

[*]It was conceived in the original publication - a simplistic simulation of economics, politics and building?

If this is true then why can we build military bases, nuclear warheads, foreign military bases, armories, outposts, and engage in warfare with rebels?

I think that the developers wanted to include a military tactic into the game but couldn't because a single island can't handle such a large budget.
BUT:
*If you can interact with surrounding islands, then a military tactic can be put into the game, war ships can be created because you are able to expand you territories among islands, which would increase the amount of resources you have allowing you to increase your budget.

Damian, what RGT is saying is that while sure you can build parts of a military, the game was not designed as an army builder, "go out and conquer other islands," real-time strategy experience. Rather it was designed as a social/city/civic/economic simulator.

Sure you can build military stuff because it is part of building your dictatorship on Tropico. But to make the game about building the most warships to takeover other islands is completely different than the original idea of the Tropico series.

Again though, some major improvements could be made to combat (see my post above).

(18-04-2011 07:05 PM)Maximo Wrote:  

(16-04-2011 11:14 PM)computertech Wrote:  turning into a wargame would be a different title, not a city simulation.

Agreed. At its core, Tropico is a city builder/sim, not an RTS or war "strategy" game as you suggest. That said, there is MUCH the devs could do, IMO, to improve combat, crime and the conflict/rebels/strategy part of the series.

My ideas on this front:
Your relationship with rebels and foreign powers should be more fluid and evolving, rather than a pop-up event where a random building is attacked and your soldiers stream single file at the enemy.

- Without Generals, Soldiers engage rebels wherever they encounter them (single file, without backup).
- With Generals, Soldiers are led (read: grouped into formation) into battle and therefore stand a better chance of actually winning a fight and losing fewer comrades.
- El Presidente should have bodyguards based on the soldiers that work at his palace. This could perhaps be upgraded once a Secret Police HQ is setup (El Prez gets 2 black suited, sunglassed guards with better training, rather than soldiers). This is far preferred and more sensible than our beloved leader charging at rebels solo with a revolver.
- Rebels should launch a variety of attacks such as car bombings, robberies, all out assaults, kidnappings, sabotage etc.
- To commit the above attacks, rebels can roam Tropico's streets and only El Prez's strong security infrastructure can stop them (police stations with patrolling cops or guard stations - see below).
- Guard Stations should have a patrol radius which guards roam about in. If they encounter rebels or criminals they can detain them.
- Secret Police or even a *new* Military Intelligence Office could be created, which can reveal the location of a rebel encampment on Tropico. El Prez can then evoke an edict or make an attack on the rebel base to eliminate whatever current rebel threat (it would be great to see your Generals lead columns of soldiers into the bush to destroy the rebel threat!)

Also:
- *New* Coast Guard/Navy shipyard should be added which allows El Prez to create a sea patrol. This can deter foreign nation's warships.
- Add a new mechanic where refugees/immigrants arrive at Tropico by floating raft/dinghy (like Cubans!). Without a Coast Guard, these arrivals cannot be stopped (like formal immigrants via Immigration Ministry).
- Pirates! Small (modern) pirate scooners/cutters can become an issue on Tropico's coast (just like rebels on land) and can stick-up freighters or tourist ships/raid coastal industry. El Prez must invest in a navy/Coast Guard to confront and deter these attacks.


These features would add a TON of depth to combat/rebel confrontation and give us, the player, more control to dictate the outcome while also not making it too "strategy" or RTS specific. Thoughts?

I like the ideas, can be a little complicated having them all. Wouldn't mine at least some of the ideas to be added, like personal guards, police having some affect against rebels, generals making soldiers far more effective.

As you get more prosperous, you have more dynamic bodyguards. In the beginning you're just running around or riding around in a jeep, later you're accompanied by Secret Service and take a limo.