Modding
I managed to partially "solve" my little problem by looking into the Seabattle.ini file.

There I found these lines:
Code:
[HullDamage]
Condition_0        = 0.8    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_1        = 0.6    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_2        = 0.4    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_3        = 0.2    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
SpeedFactor_0        = 1.0    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_1        = 0.9    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_2        = 0.8    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_3        = 0.7    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
DmgState_0        = 1    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_1        = 2    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_2        = 3    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_3        = 4    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige

[SailDamage]
Condition_0        = 0.75    ; Zustandswert der Segel in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_1        = 0.50    ; Zustandswert der Segel in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_2        = 0.25    ; Zustandswert der Segel in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_3        = 0.0    ; Zustandswert der Segel in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
SpeedFactor_0        = 0.9    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_1        = 0.8    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_2        = 0.6    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_3        = 0.5    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
DmgState_0        = 1    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_1        = 2    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_2        = 3    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_3        = 4    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige

in which I changed the speed factors of both the damaged hull and damaged sails to get the effect I needed.
Resulting in this:
Code:
[HullDamage]
Condition_0        = 1.00    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_1        = 0.80    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_2        = 0.55    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_3        = 0.35    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
SpeedFactor_0        = 1.0    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_1        = 0.9    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_2        = 0.8    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_3        = 0.7    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
DmgState_0        = 1    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_1        = 2    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_2        = 3    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_3        = 4    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige

[SailDamage]
Condition_0        = 0.95    ; Zustandswert der Segel in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_1        = 0.75    ; Zustandswert der Segel in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_2        = 0.50    ; Zustandswert der Segel in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_3        = 0.0    ; Zustandswert der Segel in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
SpeedFactor_0        = 0.9    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_1        = 0.8    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_2        = 0.6    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_3        = 0.5    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
DmgState_0        = 1    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_1        = 2    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_2        = 3    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_3        = 4    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige

As a result damaged ships - including the player's - move slower the more they get damaged; as was intended. What didn't happen is that they also became more "sluggish", meaning I have to alter something else as well.
Anyone able to help me through here?


Thorin Smile
Hack seinen Kopf ab. Ich brauche einen Aschenbecher!
Reply
@thorin.

You will remember all the discssions around manoeuvrability - turn speed - that is not covered in the .ini files. Well not that I see.
So you can change the speed through the water and hull damage but you are still left with the problem (issue). A damaged enemy ship can turn much quicker and when it gets to around 25% damage it almost can turn on it's own axis.

Enemy Snaikka's are the most difficult to deal with, at around 40% damge they turn at right angles and with the extra arc of fire you have to be extra careful about getting damage.
I think the code must just take into account speed in calculating the repositioning and heading of the AI ships. More variables to deal with turning circle would take more system resouces and you get frame rate, or other performance problems.

Just generally - it is reasonably easy to get a Captain to Fighting level 5 - Concentrate on one Captain at a time. When you haven't got much money - early game.
1. Save before creating a convoy and check what upgrades the Captain gets. Reload and try a few times until you get at least a level 1 fighting
2. Use that Captain to fight battles - that way he gains the fighting experince.

Once you have money - single ship convoy parked in Reval and check every few days for the "Battle Trainer" - he appears around every 2 to 3 weeks. He's usually there for a couple of days.

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Reply
@ Billyplod:

I think the answer to "my" little problem is found in this part of the Seabattle.ini file:

Code:
[Battleship]
MaxTurn            = 45    ; Basis für maximale Winkeländerung in ° pro Sekunde
MaxAccel        = 4    ; maximale Beschleunigung in m/s^2 bei 100% Wendigkeit
ReloadTime        = 5    ; Standardnachladedauer in s
ReloadFactor        = 0.25    ; Zeitfaktor für die Nachladedauer in Abh. der Matrosenzahl
MaxInclination        = 5    ; Maximaler Neigungswinkel um die Längsachse
NavigationFactor    = 0.05    ; Faktor für Navigationsskill
TurnSpeedFactor        = 0.3    ; Faktor in der Berechnung der maximalen Winkeländerung
SinkSpeed        = -0.01 ; SinkSpeed

And most likely in the "TurnSpeedFactor", as it -according to Google Translate - is the "Factor in the calculation of the maximum change of angle".
Which, if I'm not mistaken, means how sharp a ship is able to turn.
Question is, is the turn becoming "sharper" or "wider" when increasing the number.

Personally I'd rather solve it in another way, if that's possible.
Best option - imho - is to create a new group of lines similar to the hull damage lines aiming at increasing the turn when hull and sail damage increases; thus giving the idea of a more "sluggish" ship.
The text should look more or less like this:

Code:
[TurnSpeed]
Condition_0        = 0.8    ; Zustandswert des Winkeländerung in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_1        = 0.6    ; Zustandswert des Winkeländerung in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_2        = 0.4    ; Zustandswert des Winkeländerung in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_3        = 0.2    ; Zustandswert des Winkeländerung in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
TurnSpeed_0        = 1.0    ; Winkeländerung
TurnSpeed_1        = 0.9    ; Winkeländerung
TurnSpeed_2        = 0.8    ; Winkeländerung
TurnSpeed_3        = 0.7    ; Winkeländerung
DmgState_0        = 1    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_1        = 2    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_2        = 3    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_3        = 4    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige

Question is: Will it work?


Thorin Smile
Hack seinen Kopf ab. Ich brauche einen Aschenbecher!
Reply
I'm still thinking about it..... So I may change this post but….

The point was to make it easier for the player to win. I don't think that is possible because any Mod works for both the AI and the player the same. AND you can only change constants.

I think the problem is in the AI code.
The speed of the ship should slow has it turns? More of the hull is presented to the water, so more resistance, the ship decelerates and slows. The AI ships don't slow they keep their speed as they turn - with damage a slower speed, but the “turn speed factor” remains the same.
I think that the math says it takes the same amount of time in turning from heading due North to due East, no matter what the speed entering the turn. So a Crayer at 7 Knots entering a 90 degree turn should slow throughout the turn depending on water resistance (a variable), wind direction (a constant) and sail integrity (a variable). And take they same time if it enters that turn at 5 knots or 3 knots.
I think that Straight line speed is calculated by wind direction and sail integrity. And that works reasonably well.
Then turn speed is calculated by Straight Line Speed and “Turn Speed Factor” and doesn’t take into account the slowing that happens due to water resistance.

I think your idea would work based more on sail damage than on hull damage.
The ship would be more stable with hull damage - more blast as it takes on water. The drawback is that eventually it becomes too heavy to move, stops and sinks.
Sail damage slows the ship down and is reflected in the AI ship speed. So changing the “Turn speed factor“ from a constant to a variable based on "damage" - in some form - I think would work. How much programming effort that would take is a problem? I can’t see another patch coming but who knows?
Reply
Well, I'm no physician, but if I remember what I learned at school well enough, sailing comes to two basics:

1) the wind pushing in the sails gives the propulsion of the ship
2) the water is "pushing back", thus slowing down the ship.
2a) the deeper the draft of the ship, the more resistance the water is giving, thus resulting in the need of more sails to make sure the ship moves.

Getting the ship's hull damaged enough to have it making water, leads to 2a), meaning it'll slow down and thus has more problems making turns.

The programming is, as you already mention, in the AI. Change the .ini file and the changes apply to the AI-ships as well as yours. The difference is that human players do unexpected things, while the AI gets predictable over time. So in a way, changing the .ini file helps the human player; although there isn't a true "advantage".
I have noticed that by altering the effects of the hull and sail damage to the speed makes the fight easier. The only thing that didn't change it was the turning speed of the ships. And seeing a snaikka turning out of your line of fire, while having no sails and 21% of its hull integrity is kinda frustrating after watching it for 25 minutes at +5 speed.

As for a patch, I doubt it'll come, but the ability to change the turning speed in the .ini files - even if that means a new file - would be welcome. Perhaps it's time to use our influence to one of the Pinkish members here and drag him into this conversation??

Thorin Smile
Hack seinen Kopf ab. Ich brauche einen Aschenbecher!
Reply
(18-04-2013, 12:07 AM)Thorin Oakshield Wrote: And seeing a snaikka turning out of your line of fire, while having no sails and 21% of its hull integrity is kinda frustrating after watching it for 25 minutes at +5 speed.

And people wonder why I don't want to be bothered with this kind of Ship Sailing Simulator 3D Shooter ships battles Rolleyes
And not only does people just wonder, I have been attacked , critizied , conversation blocked by Gaming Minds representative ("Falco") , all for my criticism of the Pirates difficulty and the Ship Sailing Simulator 3D Shooter ships battles system.
Even a constructive game code altering/MOD suggestion/reqquest such as this won't be responded to by "Gaming Minds".....
Reply
Hi!

The project Patrician IV has been closed for while now. Maybe that's why there aren't any updates on the battles. Furthermore, all files for modding are available. So, if modding won't be the answer to you, I'd recommend to use the auto-battle function as you obviously don't like the naval battles. There have been a lot of posts stating that we won't deliver an 'I-Win-Button' and in addition there are lots of videos on the internet explaining how to be successful in PIV naval battles. I guess we had this discussion in some other thread some time ago...

Anyway, if you want to exploit the naval battle system, you could try to take advantage of it with knowledge of this fact:
Change the values of [SailDamage] in 'seabattle.ini' as the AI doesn't use chain ammo or pellets Wink

Best regards,
Daan
Reply
(18-04-2013, 12:59 PM)Daan Hugo Wrote: There have been a lot of posts stating that we won't deliver an 'I-Win-Button'

Hi "Daan Hugo"
Thank you very much for the answer.
I am sorry , I have been completely unaware of any such previous requests. However I have also been away from this forum for long periods because of how I were treated in the past....

Anyway , though I have understood the message that "we won't deliver an 'I-Win-Button" then I would just like to express that it makes me wonder both why Gaming Minds would turn down a "patch" that at least to some extend could bridge the gap between the company and a lot of players, plus also then would continue to deliver somewhat same kind of game experience to players in Port Royale 3 .

(18-04-2013, 12:59 PM)Daan Hugo Wrote: and in addition there are lots of videos on the internet explaining how to be successful in PIV naval battles. I guess we had this discussion in some other thread some time ago...

This kind of solution is completely along the lines with the suggestions that extremely hostile forum members would issue to critics back when the game came out , like do this or do that.
Also same kind of tactics and Captains training has been suggested by well meaning and less aggressive forum members.

The basic problem with all this however is that people that are used to play games like e.g. Patrician III and Port Royale (1) would really much rather play Patrician IV and Port Royale 3 without having to bother and spend time on all this as it really ought not be necessary to play games that ought to have been playable as leisure like strategy and trading games rather than games that appears to be more or less only playable to those that either wants to deal with the endless bother of overcomming the annoyances or endlessly follows special advice or tutorail instructions - after which annoyances still exists but just have been "learned" to have been dealt with.....

(18-04-2013, 12:59 PM)Daan Hugo Wrote: Anyway, if you want to exploit the naval battle system, you could try to take advantage of it with knowledge of this fact:
Change the values of [SailDamage] in 'seabattle.ini' as the AI doesn't use chain ammo or pellets Wink

Best regards,
Daan

Thank you for this advice "Daan Hugo" , I will save the advice for use should I find the energy to feel that I want to bother with playing Patrician IV again as it is...
Reply
I've been testing the "turnspeedfactor" as I've posted in one of my previous posts and it looks as if it's working as I hoped it would. That is, the moment my ship got hit, turning was slower and less sharp as it used to be with a hull at 100%.

Now I'd like to see some additional testing by other players, to make sure the file works as intended. After all, I could be mistaken. Sad

I'll post the complete "Seabattle.ini" file here, to make sure that everyone is having the same file. All that's needed to be done is to copy it from here and past it in the original "Seabattle.ini" file.
It might be a good idea to store your own settings somewhere else, as I've also altered the effects of hull and sail damage in that particular file.

If this indeed works as intended, I'll start looking into creating a complete new ship, thus increasing the amount available in the game. Although it'll be using the old images. Cool

Thorin Smile

Code:
[Time]
StepsPerSec        = 20    ; Zeitschritte pro Sekunde bei normaler Geschwindigkeit
SpeedFactor        = 1.0    ; globaler Zeitfaktor, mit dem alle Geschwindigkeiten angepasst werden können ; DO NOT USE !!! IT'S IGNORED ANYWAY

[Weather]
CloudLayer        = seabattleclouds

[Battleship]
MaxTurn            = 45    ; Basis für maximale Winkeländerung in ° pro Sekunde
MaxAccel        = 4    ; maximale Beschleunigung in m/s^2 bei 100% Wendigkeit
ReloadTime        = 5    ; Standardnachladedauer in s
ReloadFactor        = 0.25    ; Zeitfaktor für die Nachladedauer in Abh. der Matrosenzahl
MaxInclination        = 5    ; Maximaler Neigungswinkel um die Längsachse
NavigationFactor    = 0.05    ; Faktor für Navigationsskill
TurnSpeedFactor        = 0.3    ; Faktor in der Berechnung der maximalen Winkeländerung
SinkSpeed        = -0.01 ; SinkSpeed

[AmmoTrajectory]
Gravity            = 10    ; Erdbschleunigung in m/s^2
Amax            = 10    ; Maximaler Abschusswinkel in °
ACorrMax        = 5    ; maximaler Korrekturwinkel in °
FiringDelay        = 50    ; maximale Schussverzögerung in ms
ScatterMin        = 0.98    ; minimaler Störfaktor für Geschwindigkeitskomponenten
ScatterMax        = 1.02    ; maximaler Störfaktor für Geschwindigkeitskomponenten

[AmmoData]
; alle Schadens- und Hüllenwertewerte aus dem Konzept * 1000
Vmax_0            = 70    ; Maximale Geschwindigkeit von Massivkugeln in m/s
Vmax_1            = 65    ; Maximale Geschwindigkeit von Kettenkugeln in m/s
Vmax_2            = 60    ; Maximale Geschwindigkeit von Schrotmunition in m/s
DmgHull_0        = 1000    ; Schaden am Rumpf für Massivkugeln
DmgHull_1        = 200    ; Schaden am Rumpf für Kettenkugeln
DmgHull_2        = 300    ; Schaden am Rumpf für Schrot
DmgSail_0        = 100    ; Schaden an Segeln für Massivkugeln
DmgSail_1        = 1500    ; Schaden an Segeln für Kettenkugeln
DmgSail_2        = 100    ; Schaden an Segeln für Schrot
DmgCrew_0        = 300    ; Mannschaftsverluste für Massivkugeln
DmgCrew_1        = 100    ; Mannschaftsverluste für Kettenkugeln
DmgCrew_2        = 1200    ; Mannschaftsverluste für Schrot
Asset_0            = cannonball0
Asset_1            = cannonball0
Asset_2            = cannonball0

[HullDamage]
Condition_0        = 1.00    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_1        = 0.80    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_2        = 0.55    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_3        = 0.35    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
SpeedFactor_0        = 1.0    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_1        = 0.9    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_2        = 0.8    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_3        = 0.7    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
DmgState_0        = 1    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_1        = 2    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_2        = 3    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_3        = 4    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige

[SailDamage]
Condition_0        = 0.95    ; Zustandswert der Segel in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_1        = 0.75    ; Zustandswert der Segel in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_2        = 0.50    ; Zustandswert der Segel in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_3        = 0.0    ; Zustandswert der Segel in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
SpeedFactor_0        = 0.9    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_1        = 0.8    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_2        = 0.6    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_3        = 0.5    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
DmgState_0        = 1    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_1        = 2    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_2        = 3    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_3        = 4    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige

[TurnSpeed]
Condition_0        = 0.8    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Winkeländerung gilt
Condition_1        = 0.6    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Winkeländerung gilt
Condition_2        = 0.4    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Winkeländerung gilt
Condition_3        = 0.2    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Winkeländerung gilt
TurnSpeed_0        = 1.0    ; Winkeländerung
TurnSpeed_1        = 0.9    ; Winkeländerung
TurnSpeed_2        = 0.8    ; Winkeländerung
TurnSpeed_3        = 0.7    ; Winkeländerung
DmgState_0        = 1    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_1        = 2    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_2        = 3    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_3        = 4    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige

[Attraction]
A0    =    1.0
B0    =    1.0
C0    =    1.0
D0    =    1.0
E0    =    1.0

A1    =    1.5
B1    =    1.0
C1    =    1.0
D1    =    1.0

[Tactic]
MaxFleeDist = 1000.0
ProtectionRadius = 100.0
Hack seinen Kopf ab. Ich brauche einen Aschenbecher!
Reply
(18-04-2013, 07:29 PM)Thorin Oakshield Wrote: I've been testing the "turnspeedfactor" as I've posted in one of my previous posts and it looks as if it's working as I hoped it would. That is, the moment my ship got hit, turning was slower and less sharp as it used to be with a hull at 100%.

Now I'd like to see some additional testing by other players, to make sure the file works as intended. After all, I could be mistaken. Sad

I'll post the complete "Seabattle.ini" file here, to make sure that everyone is having the same file. All that's needed to be done is to copy it from here and past it in the original "Seabattle.ini" file.
It might be a good idea to store your own settings somewhere else, as I've also altered the effects of hull and sail damage in that particular file.

If this indeed works as intended, I'll start looking into creating a complete new ship, thus increasing the amount available in the game. Although it'll be using the old images. Cool

Thorin Smile

Code:
[Time]
StepsPerSec        = 20    ; Zeitschritte pro Sekunde bei normaler Geschwindigkeit
SpeedFactor        = 1.0    ; globaler Zeitfaktor, mit dem alle Geschwindigkeiten angepasst werden können ; DO NOT USE !!! IT'S IGNORED ANYWAY

[Weather]
CloudLayer        = seabattleclouds

[Battleship]
MaxTurn            = 45    ; Basis für maximale Winkeländerung in ° pro Sekunde
MaxAccel        = 4    ; maximale Beschleunigung in m/s^2 bei 100% Wendigkeit
ReloadTime        = 5    ; Standardnachladedauer in s
ReloadFactor        = 0.25    ; Zeitfaktor für die Nachladedauer in Abh. der Matrosenzahl
MaxInclination        = 5    ; Maximaler Neigungswinkel um die Längsachse
NavigationFactor    = 0.05    ; Faktor für Navigationsskill
TurnSpeedFactor        = 0.3    ; Faktor in der Berechnung der maximalen Winkeländerung
SinkSpeed        = -0.01 ; SinkSpeed

[AmmoTrajectory]
Gravity            = 10    ; Erdbschleunigung in m/s^2
Amax            = 10    ; Maximaler Abschusswinkel in °
ACorrMax        = 5    ; maximaler Korrekturwinkel in °
FiringDelay        = 50    ; maximale Schussverzögerung in ms
ScatterMin        = 0.98    ; minimaler Störfaktor für Geschwindigkeitskomponenten
ScatterMax        = 1.02    ; maximaler Störfaktor für Geschwindigkeitskomponenten

[AmmoData]
; alle Schadens- und Hüllenwertewerte aus dem Konzept * 1000
Vmax_0            = 70    ; Maximale Geschwindigkeit von Massivkugeln in m/s
Vmax_1            = 65    ; Maximale Geschwindigkeit von Kettenkugeln in m/s
Vmax_2            = 60    ; Maximale Geschwindigkeit von Schrotmunition in m/s
DmgHull_0        = 1000    ; Schaden am Rumpf für Massivkugeln
DmgHull_1        = 200    ; Schaden am Rumpf für Kettenkugeln
DmgHull_2        = 300    ; Schaden am Rumpf für Schrot
DmgSail_0        = 100    ; Schaden an Segeln für Massivkugeln
DmgSail_1        = 1500    ; Schaden an Segeln für Kettenkugeln
DmgSail_2        = 100    ; Schaden an Segeln für Schrot
DmgCrew_0        = 300    ; Mannschaftsverluste für Massivkugeln
DmgCrew_1        = 100    ; Mannschaftsverluste für Kettenkugeln
DmgCrew_2        = 1200    ; Mannschaftsverluste für Schrot
Asset_0            = cannonball0
Asset_1            = cannonball0
Asset_2            = cannonball0

[HullDamage]
Condition_0        = 1.00    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_1        = 0.80    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_2        = 0.55    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_3        = 0.35    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
SpeedFactor_0        = 1.0    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_1        = 0.9    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_2        = 0.8    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_3        = 0.7    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
DmgState_0        = 1    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_1        = 2    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_2        = 3    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_3        = 4    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige

[SailDamage]
Condition_0        = 0.95    ; Zustandswert der Segel in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_1        = 0.75    ; Zustandswert der Segel in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_2        = 0.50    ; Zustandswert der Segel in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
Condition_3        = 0.0    ; Zustandswert der Segel in % (0..1) ab dem die Geschwindigkeitseinbuße gilt
SpeedFactor_0        = 0.9    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_1        = 0.8    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_2        = 0.6    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
SpeedFactor_3        = 0.5    ; Geschwindigkeitsfaktor
DmgState_0        = 1    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_1        = 2    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_2        = 3    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_3        = 4    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige

[TurnSpeed]
Condition_0        = 0.8    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Winkeländerung gilt
Condition_1        = 0.6    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Winkeländerung gilt
Condition_2        = 0.4    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Winkeländerung gilt
Condition_3        = 0.2    ; Zustandswert des Rumpfes in % (0..1) ab dem die Winkeländerung gilt
TurnSpeed_0        = 1.0    ; Winkeländerung
TurnSpeed_1        = 0.9    ; Winkeländerung
TurnSpeed_2        = 0.8    ; Winkeländerung
TurnSpeed_3        = 0.7    ; Winkeländerung
DmgState_0        = 1    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_1        = 2    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_2        = 3    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige
DmgState_3        = 4    ; Zerstörungsstufe für Schadensanzeige

[Attraction]
A0    =    1.0
B0    =    1.0
C0    =    1.0
D0    =    1.0
E0    =    1.0

A1    =    1.5
B1    =    1.0
C1    =    1.0
D1    =    1.0

[Tactic]
MaxFleeDist = 1000.0
ProtectionRadius = 100.0

I fixed one of the end code tags that was duplicated in your former post.

Do I have to start a new game for these changes to take effect? I am using the Steam version of P4 RoaD.
Reply
No.

All you need to do after applying the changes is to re-start the game.
Load your last save and it works as intended.


Thorin Smile
Hack seinen Kopf ab. Ich brauche einen Aschenbecher!
Reply
Tested. I think it does, but very little. Which values would I have to touch to make it extreme (read, it turn very very little as soon as it's damaged).

That way I would be able to test it better.


Also, have you been able to make the ships almost stop when their sails go down completely? With these changes I noticed a reduction in speed, but I wanted to make sure.
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It's impossible to stop the ships completely once the sails are gone, since it's programmed somewhere in the "hard" code.
Only thing you can do is increase the number of the speedfactor, found under Saildamage.
By doing so you decrease the speed the more the sails got damaged.

I'm aware it's not the best solution, and I'm also aware that the drift speed of the ship should be caused by the influence of the wind and current, like it's done in EIC and C:CotA.
Big difference is that in those two games the focus was more at the naval battles to start with, while P4 is more a trading sim.

Too bad these games are made by 2 different companies (Gaming Minds and Nitro Games) and published by 2 different publishers (Kalypso and Paradox Interactive).
Together they'd made the best trading / naval battle game ever made possible.

Thorin Smile
Hack seinen Kopf ab. Ich brauche einen Aschenbecher!
Reply
Yeah, I agree about that.

At least the turning speed seems more realistic now.

Changing the issue... Have you tried to change the towns ware productions? They warn against doing it without care due to economy inbalances in the late game, but they aren't very concrete.

I'd like to make the wares more realistic, I've never heard of English cloth, more like Flemish cloth made with English materials. That was the main reason of designing Calais as the Staple port in the Renaissance.
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Also, maybe you could confirm if I am right. The only lines involved in town goods definition are the ones from townlist.ini that I am pasting here, right?

Code:
[Data]
towns = 40
production_per_town = 5 ; Wahrscheinlich nicht sinnvoll, diesen Wert zu ändern.

Town0  = Edinburgh, England, 0, 3, 5, 9, 10 ; Edinburgh produziert diese Waren
Town1  = Scarborough, England, 0, 3, 5, 13, 10 ; -1 bedeutet: keine Ware
Town2  = Boston, England, 1, 2, 7, 9, 10
Town3  = London, England, 1, 2, 4, 8, 10
Town4  = Brügge, Flandern, 3, 2, 4, -1, 18
Town5  = Haarlem, Flandern, 3, 2, 6, -1, 18
Town6  = Groningen, Flandern, 3, 2, 4, 9, 18
Town7  = Köln, Flandern, 3, 2, 7, 13, 18
Town8  = Bremen, Mecklenburg, 3, 2, 4, 8, 11
Town9  = Hamburg, Mecklenburg, 1, 2, 7, 8, 11
Town10 = Lübeck, Mecklenburg, 3, 2, 7, 8, 11
Town11 = Rostock, Mecklenburg, 3, 2, 6, 8, 11
Town12 = Ripen, Dänemark, 1, 2, 7, 9, 17
Town13 = Flensburg, Dänemark, 1, 3, 4, -1, 17
Town14 = Aalborg, Dänemark, 3, 2, 4, -1, 17
Town15 = Naestved, Dänemark, 3, 1, 4, -1, 17
Town16 = Bergen, Norden, 0, 1, 5, 13, 12
Town17 = Stavanger, Norden, 0, 2, 5, 13, 12
Town18 = Oslo, Norden, 0, 1, 5, 9, 12
Town19 = Stockholm, Norden, 0, 3, 5, 9, 12
Town20 = Göteborg, Schweden, 0, 1, 5, 13, 14
Town21 = Malmö, Schweden, 0, 1, 4, -1, 14
Town22 = Ahus, Schweden, 0, 1, 7, 9, 14
Town23 = Visby, Schweden, 1, 3, 6, -1, 14
Town24 = Stettin, Pommern, 3, 2, 6, 8, 15
Town25 = Danzig, Pommern, 0, 1, 6, 13, 15
Town26 = Thorn, Pommern, 0, 2, 6, 13, 15
Town27 = Königsberg, Pommern, 0, 2, 6, 8, 15
Town28 = Riga, Livland, 0, 3, 6, -1, 16
Town29 = Reval, Livland, 0, 1, 5, 13, 16
Town30 = Helsinki, Livland, 0, 1, 7, 8, 16
Town31 = Novgorod, Livland, 0, 1, 7, 9, 16
Town32 = Nimwegen, Flandern, 0, 1, 4, 8, 18
Town33 = Minden, Mecklenburg, 3, 1, 7, -1, 11
Town34 = Berlin, Mecklenburg, 3, 2, 5, 13, 11
Town35 = Erfurt, Mecklenburg, 0, 1, 4, 13, 11
Town36 = Posen, Pommern, 1, 2, 7, -1, 15
Town37 = Warschau, Pommern, 0, 3, 6, 9, 15
Town38 = Breslau, Pommern, 0, 2, 5, 8, 15
Town39 = Kaunas, Livland, 3, 2, 6, 9, 16
Reply
(23-04-2013, 11:26 PM)Thorin Oakshield Wrote: I'm aware it's not the best solution, and I'm also aware that the drift speed of the ship should be caused by the influence of the wind and current, like it's done in EIC and C:CotA.
Big difference is that in those two games the focus was more at the naval battles to start with, while P4 is more a trading sim.

Too bad these games are made by 2 different companies (Gaming Minds and Nitro Games) and published by 2 different publishers (Kalypso and Paradox Interactive).
Together they'd made the best trading / naval battle game ever made possible.

Thorin Smile

I would just like to comment on your EIC and C:CotA versus Patrician IV comments.

I don't think that it is a completely accurate description that "focus was more at the naval battles to start with" in EIC and C:CotA . It's a given that Nitro Games at least had the brains to build games with "arcade mode" ships battle settings making them enjoyable and rather simple for strategy game players. Also then yes! , ships fleet size, strength, captains skills and such matters. But basically then I think that EIC also have a lot of focus on trading as most goals, as far as I remember, have to do with Importing X tons of whatever. With respect to goals such as aquire ports then in my eyes then that is really not Naval battles per se , yes one attacks with ships but I always use "Auto resolve" for that (can't remember if there is any other way) whereas I always fight ship versus ship battles manually (arcade battle mode). The only thing that really sucks about ships battles in EIC is that ones ship's AI will let the ships run onto rocks , but that is a minor inconvenience.
So in conlusion of that then Patrician IV's ships battles ought to have been as easy and enjoyable for leisure game strategy game players as EIC is.
I see the major difference between EIC and Patrician IV as that the Patrician IV got all the nice city building and interating with that and so on, and though that is also part of trading then I se it more as with emphasis on City building , making the City building aspect the greater difference....

The EIC is in my eyes by far the best of the three mentioned games. EIC would not have come near Patrician IV if "Gaming Minds" had not made the ships battles and pirates a pest for leisure game strategy game players.
The game engine of the EIC game is however extremely "heavy" to run (try "saving") and also have some bugs.
The C:CotA represents the stage where Nitro Games gets the heavy game engine problem solved as C:CotA runs smooth and seems to have had some engine bugs solved also. So C:CotA has got the engine that EIC ought to have used/been built with.
The C:CotA game itself however fails miserably as it by design have the flaw that as soon as one have smashed or taken an enemy town then another pops up making the game interesting for a short while only and then one wishes to play the heavy engined and somewhat buggy EIC instead.

Anyway , "Thorin Oakshield" , I will however most certainly agree that combined then EIC , C:CotA and Patrician IV would have made the best trading / naval battle game ever made possible
And though I *really* like the EIC and though I think that the EIC game did mange to sort of create it's own sort of "nieche" then I think that the Patrician IV would have won by any comparison if Patrician IV had used a game ships battle system that were suitable for leisure game strategy game players and had not made the whole pirate thing a pest also.

Upon having played the C:CotA I told Nitro Games directly that I thought that the C:CotA were a failed venture (for the reasons mentioned in this post). And as "Gaming Minds" and "Kalypso Media" turned the deaf ear to leisure game strategy game players protests and requests with respect to ships battles developer MOD/Patch of the Ships battle system and pirates problem in Patrician IV and Port Royale then the only thing one can hope is that Nitro Games will come up with an EIC 2 game that will blow any other leisure game strategy game out of the water.....
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(24-04-2013, 12:51 PM)FiatLux Wrote: [...] And as "Gaming Minds" and "Kalypso Media" turned the deaf ear to leisure game strategy game players protests and requests [...]

This is not true! We are listening and there are many threads where you can find proof of the opposite (e.g. http://forum.kalypsomedia.com/showthread.php?tid=10689)! Some features of PIV and PR3 have been added/changed/balanced by the suggestions of the community.
Anyway, I know you got your opinion on the naval battles, but this was not on the list of changes. Furthermore, I don't think any discussion about how to readjust the battles would be helpful, as the project PIV is already through.

However, please keep on mind that this thread is about modding Wink

Best regards,
Daan
Reply
I don't want easier (arcadish) battles. I want them more realist. Boarding should be a part of the game, just as stopping a ship from destroying the masts through use of bar/knipple/chain shot or having a turning speed dependant on ship speed.

Regardless, can anyone confirm if I was right about my assumption? Thanks ^^.
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(24-04-2013, 01:28 PM)Daan Hugo Wrote:
(24-04-2013, 12:51 PM)FiatLux Wrote: [...] And as "Gaming Minds" and "Kalypso Media" turned the deaf ear to leisure game strategy game players protests and requests [...]

This is not true! We are listening and there are many threads where you can find proof of the opposite (e.g. http://forum.kalypsomedia.com/showthread.php?tid=10689)! Some features of PIV and PR3 have been added/changed/balanced by the suggestions of the community.
Anyway, I know you got your opinion on the naval battles, but this was not on the list of changes. Furthermore, I don't think any discussion about how to readjust the battles would be helpful, as the project PIV is already through.

However, please keep on mind that this thread is about modding Wink

Best regards,
Daan

@ Daan Hugo

Dear Sir ,
I did keep in mind that his thread is for modding discussion and all I did were to respond to a post about modding , and that post compared some games and I uttered my opinion on that comparison.

While I acknowledge that the tone and manner in which Patricain IV critique and critics are treated has improved vastly over the extreme abuse one were subjected to if raising any criticism when the Patrician IV game came out , and while I at the same time acknowledge that "Gaming Minds" may have listened to some criticism then I am sorry that I have to say that "Gaming Minds" have listen mostly only to criticism that have "rubbed" "Gaming Minds" the right way.

Right from the start when Patrician IV were played by me I am sure that you will be able to find posts by me critisizing the Patrician IV ships battle system and the pirates difficulty and as far as I can see then none of that were *really* listened to - on the contrary then one were abusively attacked by some of the other forum members while others suggested what might as well have been taking an educational degree in playing the game (do this or do that for hours without end - or whatever - then it will surely work )..

Also I must confess I think it a bit funny that you link to a "proof of the opposite" in a "Port Royale 3: Pirates & Merchants" thread while you explain to me that "project PIV is already through" - as if "Gaming Minds" had any intentions of making any alterations to "Port Royale 3: Pirates & Merchants" along the lines as those I suggested for both "Port Royale 3: Pirates & Merchants" AND "Patrician IV" .

Though , as I have fully acknowledged , that "tone" has shifted and though people have become *a lot more* tolerant to crticism then I am sorry that I have to convey to you that I still sometimes feel a little bit like I am treated like the enemy here. As I wrote to "'Thorin Oakshield" here then after a lot of abuse then it is of some comfort that other people recognize that for some groups of players then "project" "Patrician IV" (and subsequently "Port Royale 3: Pirates & Merchants" ) were less than optimal when it comes to "Ships battles play" and "pirate difficulty".

However I think that the main problem here is that "Gaming Minds" made an assessment error when designing the game engines Ships Battle system for "Patrician IV" and "Port Royale 3: Pirates & Merchants" and rather than brideging the gap to some player groups by listening from the start then "Gaming Minds" stuck to it's attitude in both of mentioned games and by that to some degree alienating some players....

I ought never have been treated as "the enemy" in the first place and "Gaming Minds" error there were that when it comes to critique from intelligent people like I that actually "have a case"/"a valid point" then "Gaming Minds" from the start ought to have adopted the attitude that : (Quote by Benjamin Franklin) Critics are our friends, they show us our faults .
Reply
(23-04-2013, 08:12 PM)Zalioth Wrote: Tested. I think it does, but very little. Which values would I have to touch to make it extreme (read, it turn very very little as soon as it's damaged).

That way I would be able to test it better.


Also, have you been able to make the ships almost stop when their sails go down completely? With these changes I noticed a reduction in speed, but I wanted to make sure.

I did some testing with Thorin's Mod and decided that for me to give what I wanted. I left the [TURNSPEED] values unchanged but I upped the value of 'TurnSpeedFactor' under the [BATTLESHIP] to 0.4.

I can only repeat what I said to Thorin

"I've come to the conclusion that this is a matter of preference and there's no right answer. I like the damage being a factor in turn speed, but can't say what values are right. I don't think there is a right answer.
I think it's "what works for you"."
Reply
@FiatLux
Well, sorry for posting the wrong link ([German]http://forum.kalypsomedia.com/showthread.php?tid=8795 - but there should be an international thread too), but the message is still the same: We listen and react if there is a need (see threads about reported bugs and the following updates)! It is impossible to implement everyone's suggestions. In this case, the naval battles and pirates are designed as written in the concept and they work just fine, so we didn't see any need for changing the whole system (btw: battles and pirates have been balanced!). We had reasons for these decisions (e.g. as the game is getting 'rather easy' (you get the more and more money) after a few hours, pirates should 'nag' the player).
If you still want to talk about this, please open another thread or write a private message.
Reply
(24-04-2013, 06:24 PM)Daan Hugo Wrote: @FiatLux
Well, sorry for posting the wrong link ([German]http://forum.kalypsomedia.com/showthread.php?tid=8795 - but there should be an international thread too), but the message is still the same: We listen and react if there is a need (see threads about reported bugs and the following updates)! It is impossible to implement everyone's suggestions. In this case, the naval battles and pirates are designed as written in the concept and they work just fine, so we didn't see any need for changing the whole system (btw: battles and pirates have been balanced!). We had reasons for these decisions (e.g. as the game is getting 'rather easy' (you get the more and more money) after a few hours, pirates should 'nag' the player).
If you still want to talk about this, please open another thread or write a private message.

Yeah, the pirates work fine now, and the little changes I need are moddable. Let's try to keep it to modding only ^^.

Can you let me know if I was right about my initial assumtion about Town Goods assignment?
Reply
Sorry for posting the same again, but I haven't received any answer yet. Maybe someone could let me know if I am right?

The only lines involved in town goods definition are the ones from townlist.ini that I am pasting here, right?

Code:
[Data]
towns = 40
production_per_town = 5 ; Wahrscheinlich nicht sinnvoll, diesen Wert zu ändern.

Town0  = Edinburgh, England, 0, 3, 5, 9, 10 ; Edinburgh produziert diese Waren
Town1  = Scarborough, England, 0, 3, 5, 13, 10 ; -1 bedeutet: keine Ware
Town2  = Boston, England, 1, 2, 7, 9, 10
Town3  = London, England, 1, 2, 4, 8, 10
Town4  = Brügge, Flandern, 3, 2, 4, -1, 18
Town5  = Haarlem, Flandern, 3, 2, 6, -1, 18
Town6  = Groningen, Flandern, 3, 2, 4, 9, 18
Town7  = Köln, Flandern, 3, 2, 7, 13, 18
Town8  = Bremen, Mecklenburg, 3, 2, 4, 8, 11
Town9  = Hamburg, Mecklenburg, 1, 2, 7, 8, 11
Town10 = Lübeck, Mecklenburg, 3, 2, 7, 8, 11
Town11 = Rostock, Mecklenburg, 3, 2, 6, 8, 11
Town12 = Ripen, Dänemark, 1, 2, 7, 9, 17
Town13 = Flensburg, Dänemark, 1, 3, 4, -1, 17
Town14 = Aalborg, Dänemark, 3, 2, 4, -1, 17
Town15 = Naestved, Dänemark, 3, 1, 4, -1, 17
Town16 = Bergen, Norden, 0, 1, 5, 13, 12
Town17 = Stavanger, Norden, 0, 2, 5, 13, 12
Town18 = Oslo, Norden, 0, 1, 5, 9, 12
Town19 = Stockholm, Norden, 0, 3, 5, 9, 12
Town20 = Göteborg, Schweden, 0, 1, 5, 13, 14
Town21 = Malmö, Schweden, 0, 1, 4, -1, 14
Town22 = Ahus, Schweden, 0, 1, 7, 9, 14
Town23 = Visby, Schweden, 1, 3, 6, -1, 14
Town24 = Stettin, Pommern, 3, 2, 6, 8, 15
Town25 = Danzig, Pommern, 0, 1, 6, 13, 15
Town26 = Thorn, Pommern, 0, 2, 6, 13, 15
Town27 = Königsberg, Pommern, 0, 2, 6, 8, 15
Town28 = Riga, Livland, 0, 3, 6, -1, 16
Town29 = Reval, Livland, 0, 1, 5, 13, 16
Town30 = Helsinki, Livland, 0, 1, 7, 8, 16
Town31 = Novgorod, Livland, 0, 1, 7, 9, 16
Town32 = Nimwegen, Flandern, 0, 1, 4, 8, 18
Town33 = Minden, Mecklenburg, 3, 1, 7, -1, 11
Town34 = Berlin, Mecklenburg, 3, 2, 5, 13, 11
Town35 = Erfurt, Mecklenburg, 0, 1, 4, 13, 11
Town36 = Posen, Pommern, 1, 2, 7, -1, 15
Town37 = Warschau, Pommern, 0, 3, 6, 9, 15
Town38 = Breslau, Pommern, 0, 2, 5, 8, 15
Town39 = Kaunas, Livland, 3, 2, 6, 9, 16
Reply
Hello Zalioth,
Yes the townlist.ini will define what goods/wares are in each town.
Then there is the tradesysem.ini that defines prices, amount of goods produced, goods consumption and some other parameters that involve goods.
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Thanks a lot! ^^
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Thank you so much for this. I've solved my own pirate problem by multiplying the damage chain shots do by 1,000. My reasoning is that I can already defeat pirates with a single ship taking no damage, I just don't want to have to spend 10 minutes per battles doing it.
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Right, I've been searching high and low to find a way, any way at all, to get more ships quickly through modding, but I cannot find anything. Any hope?
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I suspect that it could be in SHIPDATA.INI and that the lines to look at are

; Kraier
; -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Ship01]
Capacity = 300
Vmin = 20
Vmax = 28

V for Velocity - not tried myself but .......
Reply
What I did in EIC - with the help of another forum member - was combining two things.

First thing you need to do is to save a copy of the Shiptypes.ini file somewhere. If you still have the original modding download at your computer, you can fine an original there, so there's no need to create the back-up.
It would however be a very good idea to create back-ups of your saved games. Just to make sure nothing goes wrong with them the moment the modded files creates a problem.

Second you need to create the new ship type in the "shiptype.ini file".
That new ship type needs another name; i.e. Kraier Mk II and all stats of the original Kraier.
When you've done that, you can start altering the stats of the Kraier Mk II, like in creasing length, with, cargo space, etc.

The third thing you need to do is to link the image of the Crayer - Kraier - to the Kraier Mk II stats. I'm not sure where to find that, but it might be in the Shiptype.ini file as well.
And finally, you have to decide when the ship got available to you. Since only the Crayer, Snaikka and Cog are available at the start, you might want to add the improved ships to the research list of the university.
I.e; the improved ships come available after you have researched the Holk.

Regards,

Thorin Smile
Hack seinen Kopf ab. Ich brauche einen Aschenbecher!
Reply
Err, I didn't mean faster speeds. I meant getting a lot of ships without waiting the ~79 day construction time. Carts have a "constructiontime" but there does not appear to be anything similar for ship construction, or a way to make more ships able for instant buying.

Edit: Simply supplying all ports with enough materials has made ship production fast enough.
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