@CK,
I think you should stop trying to analyze, or dissect the law. Simply because I was once told to forget about literal law, and learn how to manipulate the wording of the law. I was told this on many occasions, and I use it well.

I know of no two tiers of law in the content that you are suggesting. You’ll have to be more specific. I’m not a student of law, I am a practicing lawyer. I handled many local, state, and federal cases. So don’t try to teach me, and others about the law, unless you’re qualified to do so.

I could go on forever about this topic, but I won’t as not to derail this thread any further. There are many factors the general public is not privy too, and looking them up, and quoting books is not always the facts surrounding case’s such as these. In fact they are continually written, and re-written as this subject is defined, and explored.

Tropico Bob,

I believe I stated that I was not arguing with you - as you are learned in the law - but rather trying to present an answer in layperson's terms to try to help Thorin understand our Federal System.

I'm not trying to "derail" the thread. I think Thorin needs better help in understanding our system of law. You are certainly qualifed to give it if you wish to negate my effort. I wish you would do so I could also understand it better.

@CK,
I believe I speak in layman terms for this audience. Your postings sometimes confuses people even more. Seems being that this audience is seeking legal questions, synopsis, and theories. I feel I’m best qualified to answer them. Unless their is another attorney present.

Your last post didn’t clarify anything, but maybe confused the issue even further.

Do any of you have a problem with my postings in this nature? Please PM me, and I would be happy to clarify it, or just post it here, but I do not want to take away from this threads mission.

OK, now I'm going to be a bit more specific, just to make sure I got things right.

Here's the case (simular to what happened in Norway)
Some lunatic decides to blow a car bomb at the parking lodge of a hospital, while entering a highschool sports field two minutes later. There he immediately starts shooting at the kids and teachers present.
He gets caught, tried and convicted to [X murders * Y years for each murder] or sentenced to life. In both cases there can be a chance to get parole or not; but parole can be denied. In some states he might get the death penalty.

If the same thing happens at federal ground (which if not mistaken are Goverment Buildings and Native American Teritories), he'll be tried and convicted according to Federal law. But basicly the sentences are similar to that of a state conviction.

If the same thing happens at a military base, he'll be convicted according to military laws. Punishment will be similar to that mentioned above.

As for the lynch-mob; the reason I doubt a lynch party is going to happen is simple: because since the assassination of Lee Harvey Oswald several known persons have been shot and the one who did it made it to court alive.
The reason Oswald got shot is most likely because the justice department underestimated the popularity of Kennedy and the effect his death had at the general public.
Perhaps it was a conspiricy as some believe, but this is not the place to argue that.
Since then several known persons have shot: John Lennon got murdered and the one who did it was caught and convicted. No-one tried to lynch him.
Reagan got shot, survived but his attempted murderer got caught, tried and was never lynched.
Less than a year ago a member of congres got shot. The one who did it wasn't lynched, despite he was in the mob.

A lynch-party might occasionally have taken place in the Wild West, because there wasn't a law enforcement system as we have today; thus the chances that a travelling judge or sherriff was able to send one to prison were less.
Today it isn't needed anymore, since crimes as horrible as what happened in Norway last week are enough to convice anyone that the one responsible has to pay for it dearly.
Keep in mind that no matter what happens with the criminal, the victim usually is the one having life.


Now, if my understanding of the US system is correct, perhaps it's time to move on? I'm still curious about how other nations would act when something like what happend in Norway happened.

Thorin

(30-07-2011 09:50 AM)Thorin Oakshield Wrote:  OK, now I'm going to be a bit more specific, just to make sure I got things right.
...
A lynch-party might occasionally have taken place in the Wild West, because there wasn't a law enforcement system as we have today; thus the chances that a travelling judge or sherriff was able to send one to prison were less.
...
Now, if my understanding of the US system is correct, perhaps it's time to move on? I'm still curious about how other nations would act when something like what happend in Norway happened.

Thorin

I hope you will take it in a good spirit that I feel you misunderstand the "Wild West" - which I suspect you learned about from "Spaghetti Westerns."
http://most-wanted-western-movies.com/sp...rn-movies/
Spaghetti Western is a nickname for a sub-genre of western films that emerged in the mid-1960s. What it had to do with Spaghetti? ..Well most of these Spaghetti Westerns were produced by Italian studios and were shot in Tabernas Desert of Almeria, Andalucia region of Spain which resembles American Southwest. So the term Spaghetti western film was coined.

In fact, they were not occasional nor limited the sparcely populated frontier zone. The dramatic improvement (huge increases in tax support) that came in the post WWII era (along with the Civil Rights Movement) has made recent "Committee of Vigilance" style justice relatively rare. Please look at this link to see statistics and other information:
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ft...stats.html
The last three years with a double digit total were 1933, '34 & '35 ; not that long ago and certainly not when there was yet a "Wild West." The greatest number were concentrated in the southern, not the western states; and happened long after those were frontier areas. By the way, the southern states have long been called "The Bible Belt" of the U.S.

More importantly, lynchings were not a matter of an undeveloped, primitive law enforcement and court systems. They were a matter of mob violence incited by a variety of motives.

Additionally, some official trials have been called "Legal Lynchings" because the judge (and perhaps the jury too) was so obviously not at all impartial, and he "railroaded" the accused to conviction. Then the judge ordered the sentence carried out with no time for an appeal. Today, people cry Woe! Woe! because of the time and expense of all the appeals before an execution -- but those appeals are there because sometimes "Judge Lynch" sits officially on the bench.

Now back to the main feature!

Good lord cant someone shoot these fools already

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/20...rch/40842/

@Easy Bakes,
Can we curb our language. This is a family forum, and many viewers are of the younger generations. My niece & nephew visit this forum, and they are not even teenagers yet.

Unfortunately no, vigilante justice like that Easy Bakes is long gone. Here in America every citizen has constitutional rights to vocalize their opinions under freedom of speech. Whether you like what they say or not, they have the right to say it. Of course Norway has no such rights in that regard. Reading the article you just posted, those idiots are liable to get arrested in Norway, if they're even allowed in at all, and will face legal battles. Though I'm sure they already know that and are just looking forward to the publicity.

On a side note, I like how that article linked to the civfanatics forum as a quote source. Gamers are a force to be reckoned with!! Now all we need to do is start saying more important stuff here and maybe we'll get recognized in a newspaper at some point.

I just hate the people of oslo even have to deal with these nutbars.

@Easy Bakes,
Thank you for deleted that word. You have my respect.

(05-08-2011 10:20 PM)Easy Bakes Wrote:  I just hate the people of oslo even have to deal with these nutbars.

And I hate how they're only goint go give Americans and religious people in general a bad name. It only takes a few hateful morons to ruin things for the rest of us...

Their U.S. Constitutional Rights do not extend to a right to enter a foreign country. It seems somewhat strange that some U.S. citizens do not seem to realize that the U.S. is not Imperial Rome of Bible times.

They may choose to travel in some sort of mode which will get them into Norway in the guise of tourists. Otherwise, the Norweigans will simply require them to use their return ticket immediately. I suspect that there are a number of U.S. Veterans' organizations who will bombard the Norwegian Police authorites with the complete dossiers of the entire membership of the subject "church."

The pertinent parts from the link are:
In a story about the church's plan, the Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation (NRK) got a quote from Oslo Police chief of staff John Fuller. "If they implement what they threaten, I can only confirm that it is one of the most bad ideas at the moment," Fuller said, adding that he "hoped they restrained themselves." But one Norwegian posting in an English-language message board said he doubted the church would even be granted access to enter the country, and if they did make it to a funeral, "they'll be surrounded by some tens of thousand people telling them how completely insane they are."

That quote was from just the Oslo Police Chief. No matter that they have "open borders" in Europe, they have some residual border security for such things as tax evasion. Don't you suppose that such unwelcome visitors would be on a "watch list?"

Norway has laws banning hate speech. Its penal code reads, in part:
Any person who willfully or through gross negligence publicly utters a discriminatory or hateful expression shall be liable to fines or imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years. An expression that is uttered in such a way that it is likely to reach a large number of persons shall be deemed equivalent to a publicly uttered expression, cf. section 7, No. 2. The use of symbols shall also be deemed to be an expression. Any person who aids and abets such an offense shall be liable to the same penalty.

Possibly the spector of having to provide legal council for such a crew of walking defendants will move the State Department to put the entire "Congregation" on the "No Fly List."

Personally, I am conflicted about whether any of them should make it into Norway and actually do their "picketing." First, would U.S. citizens actually be subjected to Norwegian law without a huge outcry from the U.S. Government and some civilian groups? Then, would the Norwegian Penal "rehabilitation" system have any effect on them?

Perhaps the Norwegian Court and legal system after being exposed to the Westboro Baptist Church's members could determine that they are a continuing danger to society, and they could remain in Norwegian prison for their lives.

But that is my speculation.

Or if they even go to norway, get them arrested and labeled as terrorists. Gitmo has some openings.

I think Coconuts read way too much into the preceding statements, and associated postings. That's just my opinion, of course.
My goodness. Can't anyone ever post anything without some sort of classroom lecture from him??!!

(06-08-2011 12:29 AM)Tropico Bob Wrote:  I think Coconuts read way too much into the preceding statements, and associated postings. That's just my opinion, of course.
My goodness. Can't anyone ever post anything without some sort of classroom lecture from him??!!

Coconuts is well along in life. As his best days are behind him, and most of his productive ability is diminished, he feels that his primary purpose is to pass on his knowledge and experience to those that may follow.

Most of people who used to be at off topic left the forum and I am not as active as I used to be.

Don't be dissapointed if nobody replies

He's selling something.

---

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Selling? More like like trolling. Eh.